landrovermanuk Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Long story. A couple of months ago, the 90 (V8 3.9 efi) was running fine but would overheat. The rad is only a year old, electric fans working, all hoses have been replaced over the last 3 or 4 years or less. So last thing was the thermostat and cap on the expansion bottle. Upon removing the thermostat, a bolt snapped, tried welding nuts on, thread removal tools, no luck. So a good second hand intake manifold was sourced. Due to work and family commitments, it's taken a couple of months to fix. Now the bloody thing won't start, it sounds like a flat battey but the battery is brand new. It had a new ignition switch a few weeks before it came off the road and was starting/ running fine. So any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 When you say it sounds like a flat battery, do you mean it cranks slowly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 Yes, struggles then stops, then the same again when you try again. I'm wondering about a bad earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 Hopefully this gives you an idea. 20240615_180938.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 3 hours ago, landrovermanuk said: Now the bloody thing won't start, it sounds like a flat battey but the battery is brand new. Even new batteries can go flat. Have you charged it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 Battery is fine, checked it and got it on charge to replace what I have used cranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 Latest installment. Tried cranking for about 20 seconds or so, popped the bonnet and a puff of smoke appeared from the area by the brake master cylinder. So battery disconnected and I will be having a good look at the wiring in that area and behind the instruments in the morning. Getting a little frustrated now, lol, as we are supposed to be going to Billings in just over a weeks time...🥴 oh and it needs an mot as that's just expired..🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Quite possible a bad connection to starter or bad/missing engine earth strap. Last resort is failed starter, but check cheap things first. What other work has happened recently? Anything electrical? I doubt anything behind instruments have smoked, nothing there is on the starter circuit or that would cause it to crank slowly. P. S. Don't keep cranking when there is clearly something wrong, you will just damage something even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 47 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Quite possible a bad connection to starter or bad/missing engine earth strap. Last resort is failed starter, but check cheap things first. I haven't removed any earth straps and was starting fine until it came off the road in April but obviously it is something I will check tomorrow. 49 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: What other work has happened recently? Anything electrical? Earlier in the year we replaced the ignition switch as you had to have the key in exactly the right place or nothing would happen. At the same time we replaced the indicator stalk as it was getting very floppy especially the high beam flash. A few days before it came off the road the lights started playing up, lights on, indicators and brake lights wouldn't work but fine with lights off. Again is something to be checked/ sorted for mot - possible earth issue but car was running and starting fine. Fitted the raised air intake whilst waiting for the new battery to arrive. It's a new old stock Southdown through wing, there is a slight chance I have damaged some wiring but the starting problem already existed. 57 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: P. S. Don't keep cranking when there is clearly something wrong, you will just damage something even more I knew this but was having a tantrum...lol Thank you for taking the time to reply.😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 All those electrical problems do point to a bad connection or poor earth somewhere. But apart from the ignition switch, that shouldn't affect starting. Did you have the distributor off when you did the manifold? If so, double check all is correct there. If the timing is off, you can have cilinders firing against the starter motor, causing slow crank and (obviously) not starting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 1 hour ago, Escape said: Did you have the distributor off when you did the manifold? If so, double check all is correct there. If the timing is off, you can have cilinders firing against the starter motor, causing slow crank and (obviously) not starting. Yes, I did. I am going out to have a look at it in a little while, I'm going to start by checking I haven't missed/damaged an earth lead and then I'll check the distributor. Didn't even cross my mind it could be that. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 Well, not sure if it's part of the problem or just a victim of my sense of humour failure yesterday but today it wouldn't even attempt to turn over. After a carefull look round, we have found the solenoid/starter moter is toast, that's whatthe burning smell was.🤦♂️ So in keeping with her usual stubborn self, the lower allen bolt will not move, long bar/impact gun won't touch it. So going to trying an extraction tool tomorrow, if not we'll cut the head of the bolt off and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 At least you've found a smoking gun, that's half way to solving the problem. A bad earth could have caused the starter to overheat, so make sure to check those as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 BTW you can "prove" a bad earth by bridging from battery -ve to the engine block with a jumplead, so temporarily "replacing" the bad earth. Constant cranking especially with a low battery / bad connection is not good for starter motors, some modern cars even stop you cranking the engine after a few tries to let the starter cool down - they are not built for much more than a quick spin over followed by a long rest! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 So weirdly enough, it was running fine until I went to do the thermostat, which started this tale of woe. Anyway, taking the starter motor, we found the earth strap wasn't connected to the chassis. I'm at work, so my eldest son is working on it. So new starter is on and earth strap reconnected, others checked. It won't start, so he's going to get it to tdc and realign the distributor. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 I’ll wager your handbrake cable is now wrecked. When the engine earth strap is poor, the starter tries to earth through the hand brake cable and melts its Teflon coating, seizing it to the outer sheath. Expect to need a new cable. It’s worth having a decent quality earth cable from engine or transmission casing directly to the battery as the exposed braided straps are prone to corrosion and dirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Agreed, probably melted the whole length after 20s of cranking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 FWIW my earth cable goes from the battery to one of the starter bolts, since that's an easy location AND very near the biggest current draw on the block. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 Just had a message from him. No spark at the plugs but is from the coil, it also backfires as he tries to start it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 2 hours ago, Snagger said: I’ll wager your handbrake cable is now wrecked. When the engine earth strap is poor, the starter tries to earth through the hand brake cable and melts its Teflon coating, seizing it to the outer sheath. Expect to need a new cable. It’s worth having a decent quality earth cable from engine or transmission casing directly to the battery as the exposed braided straps are prone to corrosion and dirt. I'll get him to check it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 Here's what's happening now. I would just like to say a big thank you for the input so far. VID-20240618-WA0007.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrovermanuk Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 It's running 😁, timing was way off. Just a small electrical fault, check cooling and get it MOTd by Tuesday, oh and check the handbrake cable... Once again thank you all for your help. My next thread will hopefully be more light hearted about an engine/gearbox swap but that can wait a while. Thank you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Your timing is out or the rotor arm springs have come adrift in the dizzy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 10 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: Your timing is out or the rotor arm springs have come adrift in the dizzy. ^ this, if the dizzy has been out / apart I would bet the timing is out of whack at the very least. As @TSD will attest, back when my V8 still had a distributor, we did some faffing about with it and it went from refusing to run at all to running like a bag of spanners but refusing to STOP running no matter where we twisted the dizzy They are also sensitive to fouled plugs, I've had one flatly refuse to even so much as cough but fire up and purr like a kitten with new plugs in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Seems there was a crossover in those posts, glad it's going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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