Series III fully restored......

[Guest MJG]

In a few months I will be coming up to the time to change my vehicle.

I've considered a number of options but am seriously thinking about the following:-

Fully restored Series III fitted with the following:-

- Defender front and rear wings with wheel arch flares.

- Fully reconditioned 200tdi engine (300tdi if one will fit) - if I go this way is it really only possible to wear the intercooler on the outside???.

- Fully reconditioned gear & transfer box (advice on types would be appreciated)

- Fully galvanised chassis.

- Coil springs.

Edited to say woops!! the one refered to in the mag below I note retains it'd leaf springs.

- Modular rims with 'ALL' terrain tyres - will be used for greenlaning and not much else off road activity.

I will want a number of other mods including a fully trimmed interior, 2 forward facing rear seats, defender door mirrors, rear wheel carrier, side steps, CB etc etc but in the main I need to know who people think would be best to trust this purchase to.

The bit of research I've done has unearthered the following:-

http://www.liveridge4x4.com/home/default.asp

Any body used them??? or would anybody care to speak up in favour of another company that could do this.

Thanks in anticipation......

[glen anderson]

In a few months I will be coming up to the time to change my vehicle.

I've considered a number of options but am seriously thinking about the following:-

Fully restored Series III fitted with the following:-

- Defender front and rear wings with wheel arch flares.

- Fully reconditioned 200tdi engine (300tdi if one will fit) - if I go this way is it really only possible to wear the intercooler on the outside???.

- Fully reconditioned gear & transfer box (advice on types would be appreciated)

- Fully galvanised chassis.

- Coil springs.

- Modular rims with 'ALL' terrain tyres - will be used for greenlaning and not much else off road activity.

I will want a number of other mods including a fully trimmed interior, 2 forward facing rear seats, defender door mirrors, rear wheel carrier, side steps, CB etc etc but in the main I need to know who people think would be best to trust this purchase to.

The bit of research I've done has unearthered the following:-

http://www.liveridge4x4.com/home/default.asp

Any body used them??? or would anybody care to speak up in favour of another company that could do this.

Thanks in anticipation......

Why not just buy a 90 or 110 and get it rebuilt on a galvanised chassis? Seems like that's what spec you want...

Using coils on a leaf sprung motor, particularly with the level of other modifications you list could mean a whole world of trouble with the DVLA and insurance companies (particularly if you needed to make a claim).

Regards, Glen.

[Guest MJG]

Why not just buy a 90 or 110 and get it rebuilt on a galvanised chassis? Seems like that's what spec you want...

Using coils on a leaf sprung motor, particularly with the level of other modifications you list could mean a whole world of trouble with the DVLA and insurance companies (particularly if you needed to make a claim).

Regards, Glen.

Hi Glen,

I am considering a later 90 too yes that is one of my options but I asked this because I really like the 'retro' look of older LR including the Series three - particularly the front - with the 'stepped back grille' and the split screen. I suppose I am after the best of both worlds - the look of a bygone vehicle with the 'refinement' (I use that word loosley ) of a later vehicle for something that would be my daily driver and be something we would use on longer journey's.

I've seen other projects in the mags which have similarly radical transformations, in particular the one that featured in the March 06 issue of LR monthly in the article 'British Glory'

http://www.lrm.co.uk/archive/backissues/ba...06/2006.03.html

So I am assuming there must ways to square things with the DVLA and surely it would be possible to secure an agreeed value policy with a specilaist insurer, having declared all the mods to them.

[glen anderson]

Hi Glen,

I am considering a later 90 too yes that is one of my options but I asked this because I really like the 'retro' look of older LR including the Series three - particularly the front - with the 'stepped back grille' and the split screen. I suppose I am after the best of both worlds - the look of a bygone vehicle with the 'refinement' (I use that word loosley ) of a later vehicle for something that would be my daily driver and be something we would use on longer journey's.

I've seen other projects in the mags which have similarly radical transformations, in particular the one that featured in the March 06 issue of LR monthly in the article 'British Glory'

http://www.lrm.co.uk/archive/backissues/ba...06/2006.03.html

So I am assuming there must ways to square things with the DVLA and surely it would be possible to secure an agreeed value policy with a specilaist insurer, having declared all the mods to them.

Hi MJG,

The biggest problem with landrovers is also their biggest advantage... They're probably the easiest modified vehicle on the market in the UK. This would be no problem at all if it were straightforward to obtain insurance on a highly modified vehicle - it is possible, but so many people don't bother, and it can be stunningly expensive depending on the actual modifications involved, your age, intended use of the vehicle, and location. Some insurers look favourably on modifications - my insurer put no loading on my premium for the overdrive, uprated brakes (six-cyl drums), later seats, bigger wheels and tyres (235/85x16 on FC rims), and are only loading me £35 for the 200Tdi when it finally goes in. They have, however said I'd need an engineers report for a power steering conversion and would either accept or decline my business on the strength of it.

The DVLA also have rules for modifications. You can get away with loads if they are done gradually over a long period of time. You can graft on home brewed steering and suspension and do all sorts of stuff, and I know loads of people who have done just that with no problems... But, they have firm guidelines that state that major modifications done on chassis and suspension require the vehicle to be submitted for an SVA test, much like a kit-car. This normally results in them issuing a new chassis number and registration on a "Q" plate.

DVLA have a points system for retaining a vehicle's identity:

Original chassis or monocoque (or new, original specification) 5 points

Suspension 2 points

Axles (both of them) 2 points

Gearbox 2 points

Steering 2 points

engine 1 point

You need to retain a minimum of 8 points, 5 of which must come from the chassis/monocoque.

Using coils on a leaf sprung vehicle is going to mean either major chassis work, and an SVA, or a new chassis that is "not to manufacturers original specification"... and no 5 points an hence no original reg. On top of that, your spec means whichever way you look at it you're going to be in "Q" plate hybrid territory.

As long as you're happy with that there's no problem - but it is going to mean owning a vehicle could potentially be akward to insure and hard to sell on.

If you want all the refinements of a 90 with the look of a series 3 then there's nothing stopping you moving the radiator back on a 200tdi, using a series grille and bonnet, windscreen and hard-top (although you'd have to use a cut-down 109" hardtop as an 88" would be too short, and strictly speaking the smaller series 3 screen doesn't meet construction and use regulations for driver vision and wiper swept area). A 300 tdi is mounted too far forward to allow you to do the same thing. This would simply be a cosmetic modification and wouldn't affect the status of the vehicle - you could keep all the standard bits to put it back if you wanted to.

Loads of people seem to be getting away with slapping the number plate and chassis number from an old tax-exempt scrapper on their 90 or 110, but personally the risks outweigh the benefits in my opinion!

Hope this helps, Glen.

[Guest MJG]

Hi MJG,

The biggest problem with landrovers is also their biggest advantage... <SNIP>

Hope this helps, Glen.

Certainly does ........ thanks for that pretty comprehensive response...... one thing I know I don't want is a Q plate as one thing I defo. want is the original reg and the ability to use the old style silver and black reg plates.

(PS edited to add)

Sorry just to double check then - a new galvanised chassis wouldn't get the 5 DVLA points because it is galvanised and there fore not to manufacturers spec. or is this to do with the mods needed for the coil springs???? if so I could ditch the coil spring idea and stick with leaf springs as when I have re -read the mag article I quoted I see that particular s III retained leaf springs and not coils as I originally thought.

[glen anderson]

Hi again,

Sorry for the confusion... Yes, you got it right, it's the springs/mountings that matter.

Leaf springs are considered the "original" spec, so to have a chassis manufactured for coils means no 5 points.

Galvanising is only a surface preparation and doesn't matter either way.

Sticking with a leaf sprung chassis and leaf springs would give you 7 points on the DVLA scale. If you did this then it would be pretty obvious you'd be sticking with the standard axles which gives you another 2 making 9 in total so far. With these 9 points the status of the vehicle is unassailable in the eyes of the DVLA and would remain a series II/IIA/III or whatever the original vehicle was.

Another good thing about Land-Rovers is that there are no detailed records of axle/gearbox/steering component numbers - so as long as you fit the correct type no-one can prove the axle or gearbox wasn't either the original fit or a factory supplied spare part.

It wouldn't matter which engine/gearbox/steering you chose as long as you could fit them without major chassis mods - so a 200Tdi would be ok as it can be fitted without major work.

My 109" has a galvanised chassis supplied in 1998 by Designa together with standard leaf springs, steering and axles. This means on the DVLA scale the vehicle, although the proverbial "blacksmith's hammer" is unarguably the 1960 series II I bought as a wreck in 1996!

The fact I have a series III spec Sailsbury rear axle os OK because by the time Land-Rover stopped supplying complete series axles as spares the Sailsbury was the only option for a LWB - so it is considered "original" spec even though it's stretching a point a little. Likewise the Designa chassis is really a series III clone rather than a series II copy, but again that's all Land-Rover supplied as "genuine" after the mid seventies anyway.

The fact I have a series IIA/III hybrid all-synchro gearbox matters not as I don't need the 2 points, and the 200Tdi meaning I lose another point is also no problem. At the moment I still have standard series steering, but am considering using a LHD power steering box on the outside of the chassis, secured to a bolt-on mounting. If this works out then although I'll lose the steering's 2 points, because the mod will hopefuly involve no chassis mods, I'll have no problem in the )pretty unlikely) event of any trouble with the law!

I know there are plenty of people who will tell you that you can get away with all sorts of stuff, but speaking as someone who had been through the DVLA/Police Examiner mangle I can assure you that once they get a whiff that the vehicle is modified it will be up to you to prove to them it's not! I rebuilt an 88" a couple of years back and had no end of trouble getting it back on the road once it had been re-chassised - First I had to have a Police inspection to ensure it wasn't a "ringer" or built from stolen parts, then I had to prove (wih receipts) the chassis and springs were brand new, then I had to argue that the vehicle wasn't "built from spares" and that I didn't want an "age related" plate - which would have necessitated another inspection by an appointed club/examiner. I did finally get things sorted, but it took over three months of struggling. If I had built it as a hybrid I'd have stood no chance of getting it through the system without an SVA and a "Q" plate.

My advice is to really do your research and decide exactly what you want before you spend big bucks. If you can live with leaf springs - and they are really not as bad as some people wuld have you believe! - then a modified series truck can be a real pleasure to own. The biggest problem with a modified series truck is you can find yourself in the position of having spent £5,000 to £10,000 on a vehicle that's worth, at best, half of that. If, however, you really feel you need coils and all the benefits of the later vehicles then I'd be much more inclined to buy a 200 or 300tdi 90 or 110 - particularly as they come with all the "modifications" as standard!

All the best, Glen.

PS, obviously all the stuff here only applies to the UK - other countries have wildly differing rules regarding vehicle title and registration, so don't take any notice of me if you're reading this from the other side of the world!

[Guest MJG]

Superb posts with lots of info. - Glen many thanks.

I fully get the drift of this now.

Still hanker after a series 3 88" rather than a later 90 and as it is the beginning of my research into all of this and I have a while to do lot's more as Jan is changing her car first (in a month or two) and I will be after her.

As I say my aim will be to get one old enough to have the old plates so I don't want to end up with a Q plate.

I am not planning to do all the work myself as I don't have (all) the kit or skills required and do not have the space or access to somewhere where I can keep a 'project' for the time required.

The plan is to source one from a specialist or buy one and get them to restore it so yes I probably will end up spending a shed load - but nice to have something so different from a typical bland 'Eurobox'. Then the plan willbe to keep on top of the maintenance (whch in the main I will be able to do) and run it for many years.

[glen anderson]

Hi again MJG,

Glad to be of assistance!

All the best in your research and search for a vehicle, whatever it may turn out to be.

This forum (although I am fairly new to it) seems to have some fairly switched on contributors, so I'm sure you can get plenty of advice when you need it.

If you end up with a series II/IIA then the Series II club has a pretty good forum too, I can usually be found on there. Although there are plenty of originality buffs, we're not all "rivet-counters"!

Series Two Club Forum

All the best, Glen.