engine conversion

[tiagoc]

the 2.25D engine on my sIII is getting tired and has some leaks. i believe it can stand for some more time, but it's better to be prepared. taking into account the kind of money i'm expected to pay for a complete review of it, turning it into an as-new engine, i'm looking for alternatives

the main problem here (in portugal) is that LR won't approve an engine different from the original one, so i could have some problems with our MOT, if i go the conversion route. but *maybe* if the new engine looks similar (even if it is a 2.5 or 2.8), this won't be a problem... *maybe*...

anyway, on my favorites i have 3 links for companies who deal with engine conversions:

- Conversion & Precision (link)

- MD Engineering (link)

- Vege (UK link - ES link)

prices of the conversion kits on MDEng are superior than those by C&P. Vege sells the motors as new (if complete, they get a 12 month warranty, with no mileage limit. otherwise, they get a 3 month warranty)

i think you guys know MDEng and are happy with their work. is this correct? how about the other companies, anyone knows them and can share oppinions about their work and prices?

do you have additional links for companies who sell conversion kits and repaired engines, and have a good service? thanks a lot!

[FridgeFreezer]

I think a giveaway may be the different manufacturer name on top of the engine and stamped on every cast or plastic component

Can you not / do you not want to fit a different original Land Rover engine such as a 2.5D, 200TDi, 300TDi or V8? The 2.5D (Defender and some Sherpa vans / London taxis) is almost direct bolt in, the TDi's are not too much hassle and the V8, although it requires a conversion kit and a bit of bulkhead chopping, is lovely

You can find conversion kits 2nd hand (often with an engine) on eBay quite cheaply.

What engine are you considering?

[tiagoc]

yes, the labeling on the engine might kill the plan

the 2.5D and the 200TDi were my first choices on this. they involve some work (as described in several other threads... and i didn't want to turn this into yet another one) and keeping the original sIII gearbox could mean trouble after a while, but my gearbox was swapped for a reconditioned suffix D unit (plus santana overdrive), so i guess this means it will hold those engines (provided i don't turn myself into a racer, right?)

the v8 would be music to my ears, but pain to my wallet, so it'll have to wait at the wish-list for awhile

other options could be non-LR engines (but that could pass as LR: no labels, zero shiny bits, looks old), like maybe the daihatsu (this could come from a relatively cheap donor: the Portaro, portuguese-made based on the ARO, that had the 2.5D, 2.5TD and, if i'm not mistaken, 2.8D - image of the 2.8D here). other options could be the Santana 4cyl 2.25TD or the 6cyl 3.6D but this would mean lots of engine-hunting, possible change to the front and expensive / hard to find parts

as far as LR portugal is concerned, they would only approve other engines available at the time for the sIII, like the 2.25 4 cyl petrol and 2.6 6cyl petrol. these are harder to find engines over here and i'd like to keep it a diesel

[FridgeFreezer]

If you don't race it you'll be fine - keep the gearbox oil changes regular.

[bill van snorkle]

Iam not familiar with the Spanish scene so this advice may be worthless. If I were contemplating repowering a Series I would look no further than an old Toyota BJ40 LandCruiser. There are many cheap mechanically sound vehicles with rusty bodies over here to use as donor vehicles. The ultra reliable 3 litre normally aspirated engine is near enough to the same length/width/height as the Rover 2 1/4 and is just as plain and agricultural looking. You can use the much stronger and nicer 4 or 5 spd LandCruiser gearbox together with transfercase too which eliminates the need for an adaptor plate to attach to the weak LandRover gearbox. Even the Toyota diff/axle assemblies (with disc brakes and a tight turning circle) are easily adapted to series Landies once you get tired of all the broken Rover diffs etc.

At a later date depending on you budget/ enthusiasm you can uprate to the 13 BT turbo deisel for much more power and even fit the Toyota Dyna 10 spd (5spd with splitter) gearbox.

Of course this begs the question that I often ask myself, and that is why not scrap the Landy altogether, fix up the rust on the Toyota body and call it good.

Bill.

[callum]

Of course this begs the question that I often ask myself, and that is why not scrap the Landy altogether, fix up the rust on the Toyota body and call it good.

Bill.

because you're going to build your own car anyway and you can stick all the good bits from a toyota on to the reasonably sound base of your landy as oppose to keeping all the good bits on what may not be such a sound base? maybe its not such a clear situation in aus, but in the uk a landie is a good base which can be easily altered and for which parts are plentiful. its frustrating to think of the easy time 'yota owners may have and i think if my life depended on the vehicle and i had no time to play with it a toyota or probably a pooohtrol would be my first choice. as it stands its ahobby i can leave in bits in the drive for a while so its issues are not a while and their resolution part of ownership.. i can only presume your landy is the same, after all if i recall correctly you have a proper car ('suzu?) anyway.

aside from this lot, what about a 2h or better a 12ht. from a 60 series. they rust like hell and aconversion kit exists in the uk, although is not widely advertiesed. (conversion and precision do have them i think) it will lunch your tranny though. conversion was for zf or lt95 + 85 i think they are also 4 pots so should fit ok. good displacement at 3.9 litres too.

[bill van snorkle]

because you're going to build your own car anyway and you can stick all the good bits from a toyota on to the reasonably sound base of your landy as oppose to keeping all the good bits on what may not be such a sound base? maybe its not such a clear situation in aus, but in the uk a landie is a good base which can be easily altered and for which parts are plentiful. its frustrating to think of the easy time 'yota owners may have and i think if my life depended on the vehicle and i had no time to play with it a toyota or probably a pooohtrol would be my first choice. as it stands its ahobby i can leave in bits in the drive for a while so its issues are not a while and their resolution part of ownership.. i can only presume your landy is the same, after all if i recall correctly you have a proper car ('suzu?) anyway.

aside from this lot, what about a 2h or better a 12ht. from a 60 series. they rust like hell and aconversion kit exists in the uk, although is not widely advertiesed. (conversion and precision do have them i think) it will lunch your tranny though. conversion was for zf or lt95 + 85 i think they are also 4 pots so should fit ok. good displacement at 3.9 litres too.

The situation in Aus is that it is very difficult to find a BJ40 Landcruiser with a sound rust free body.Locally made fibreglass and steel replacement sections and panels are available. It is also difficult to find a SWB series LandRover with a sound rust free chassis. Replacement sections are of poor quality and complete replacement chassis have to be imported from UK at great expense. Toyota Chassis almost never rust to the point of perforation over here. I have often thought about fully boxing the BJ40 chassis to eliminate the designed in flex so that it would be compatible with a LandRover body, for a truly everlasting vehicle.

Unfortunately the proper car( Isuzu Holden Jackaroo) now belongs to the cheese and kisses and she doesn't let me borrow it much anymore.

The 60 series do indeed rust very quickly,even in our relatively gentle climate, but unfortunately the 2H engine is a big ,long and heavy inline 6 that is easily capable of destroying most Landy transmission components with the possible exeption of Salisbury diffs if fitted.

[brianj]

Hmmm. I know where you are coming from. You can't do anything here in Spain without official approval from Land Rover which you can't get on older vehicles, unless very occasionally, at excessive cost for approval. Homolgisation or something its called.

Interestingly we had our ITV a week ago. Usual procedure, guy lifts up bonnet ostensibly to check oil before doing diesel smoke test. Somehow I think if I had a different engine in he would have sprung it straight away. They are getting more and more sticky here in Spain with adaptations/modifications/changes, can't see Portugal being that far behind from what I've heard from people I know who live in Portugal and have older vehicles.

Good luck, take care with your purchase. We assume its on Portuguese plates by the way. In your case I would be going for the 2.5 Santana or LR diesel. Easy to say from someone who has the 3.5 though - and they would notice the difference if I changed it.

[callum]

The situation in Aus is that it is very difficult to find a BJ40 Landcruiser with a sound rust free body.Locally made fibreglass and steel replacement sections and panels are available. It is also difficult to find a SWB series LandRover with a sound rust free chassis. Replacement sections are of poor quality and complete replacement chassis have to be imported from UK at great expense. Toyota Chassis almost never rust to the point of perforation over here. I have often thought about fully boxing the BJ40 chassis to eliminate the designed in flex so that it would be compatible with a LandRover body, for a truly everlasting vehicle.

Unfortunately the proper car( Isuzu Holden Jackaroo) now belongs to the cheese and kisses and she doesn't let me borrow it much anymore.

The 60 series do indeed rust very quickly,even in our relatively gentle climate, but unfortunately the 2H engine is a big ,long and heavy inline 6 that is easily capable of destroying most Landy transmission components with the possible exeption of Salisbury diffs if fitted.

i stand corrected, i thought the 2h(and 12ht) were 4 cyl engines. i wonder how they were shoehorned into land rover engine bays whilst 1hz's and that lineage are said not to fit into a land rover.

perhaps it is in part that the more modern sixes are way way too strong for land rover driveline.

i'm surprised to hear also about the rust issues on chassis. many jap cars built in the 80's are dust now, whereas land rovers are generally considered to last a bit longer even if the steel bits of body on rangies and discos have fallen off by then. 90's jap cars are a different story. 80 serires cruisers seem to age extremely well, as do troopers (bighorn, is the holden equivalent jackaroo or is that a pickup?). same goes for pajeros i think. patrols rust a bit i think, but it seems only to happen to the very abused.

i think that land rover honestly couldn't care less about corrosion. their aluminium bodies have given people the illusion that land rovers dont rust and i think they're happy to keep it that way. so many stupid instances where corrosion could easily be prevented at the factory and yet they do not bother.

in any case i'm sure you've built your car to the point where you dont care either way. its pretty much now your design and if there's any issue you can just alter it. i'm just amazed you have persisted with that rubbish little rover engine for so long.

apologies to the topic starter, waaaay off topic

tell me more about this bigger santana diesel.

[bill van snorkle]

i stand corrected, i thought the 2h(and 12ht) were 4 cyl engines. i wonder how they were shoehorned into land rover engine bays whilst 1hz's and that lineage are said not to fit into a land rover.

perhaps it is in part that the more modern sixes are way way too strong for land rover driveline.

i'm surprised to hear also about the rust issues on chassis. many jap cars built in the 80's are dust now, whereas land rovers are generally considered to last a bit longer even if the steel bits of body on rangies and discos have fallen off by then. 90's jap cars are a different story. 80 serires cruisers seem to age extremely well, as do troopers (bighorn, is the holden equivalent jackaroo or is that a pickup?). same goes for pajeros i think. patrols rust a bit i think, but it seems only to happen to the very abused.

i think that land rover honestly couldn't care less about corrosion. their aluminium bodies have given people the illusion that land rovers dont rust and i think they're happy to keep it that way. so many stupid instances where corrosion could easily be prevented at the factory and yet they do not bother.

in any case i'm sure you've built your car to the point where you dont care either way. its pretty much now your design and if there's any issue you can just alter it. i'm just amazed you have persisted with that rubbish little rover engine for so long.

apologies to the topic starter, waaaay off topic

tell me more about this bigger santana diesel.

Holden Jackaroos are what UK and US call Trooper.Pickups are named Rodeo. I have had 3 Jackaroos, one having belonged to a salt water scooba diving enthusiast with absolutely no rust. It may have something to do with General Motors Holdens paint prep but it is very rare to see a rusty Jackaroo.carp offroad though.

The reason Landy chassis rust even over here is, aside from being built from wafer thin steel, the engineers designed too many mud traps due to not having localised wheel arches. After a muddy weekend trip in a Landy, in company with other 4x4's, one can hose and scrape off a couple of wheel barrow loads of mud from under the truck, whereas you'd probably get only a bucket full from under anything else. The metal on FJ/BJ Toy chassis is at least twice as thick as Landeys so it takes a lot longer to rust through too.

If every other component on LandRovers were as well built and utterly dependable as the rubbish little 2 1/4 litre petrol engine, names such as Toyota, Nissan etc would not exist in the 4wd market sector.

Assisted by a transmission full of gears the old 2 1/4 works very well, always starts, never overheats, unless you drop a bottom radiator hose, which I have done twice and cooked the engine quite badly, but it still keeps on keeping on, even with a crack in the block between number2 and 3 cylinder. filled the crack with cold galvanising paint, new gasket and good as new. Of course there is that Toyota 3B deisel engine waiting patiently in the shed.

Bill.

[callum]

Of course there is that Toyota 3B deisel engine waiting patiently in the shed.

Bill.

and i think on the day you install that, you will have the complete picture of why nissan and toyota exist as they do today.

much as i'd like to leave that statement i know what you mean about rust traps. i have no idea what to do with my rear crossmember as the design of two c section pices laid in to each other is so rubbish that new rust is inevitable in not too long a time. someone as offered to weld a new one on for me, but i think i shall have to wait until i have time to rectify the design flaws or it will just be a waste.

sorry still ranting. passed a very nice white patrol parked in town today, loving the weapons inspector chic and knowing what lies beneath.

[backball]

I think a giveaway may be the different manufacturer name on top of the engine and stamped on every cast or plastic component

Can you not / do you not want to fit a different original Land Rover engine such as a 2.5D, 200TDi, 300TDi or V8? The 2.5D (Defender and some Sherpa vans / London taxis) is almost direct bolt in, the TDi's are not too much hassle and the V8, although it requires a conversion kit and a bit of bulkhead chopping, is lovely

You can find conversion kits 2nd hand (often with an engine) on eBay quite cheaply.

What engine are you considering?

I read somewhere that the SIII Stage I V8 had the front cross member moved to fit the V8. Was this because the Range Rover gearbox was fitted to the Stage I V8 and hence if you stay with an original SIII or SII gearbox this is not required?

You mention some bulkhead work. How significant is this? Are there any pictures to outline this? Lastly the Stage 1 V8 had a flush front grill while I've seen "original looking" conversions like the Tonka. Do standard conversion kits require a flush front grill?

[RPR]

I read somewhere that the SIII Stage I V8 had the front cross member moved to fit the V8. Was this because the Range Rover gearbox was fitted to the Stage I V8 and hence if you stay with an original SIII or SII gearbox this is not required?

You mention some bulkhead work. How significant is this? Are there any pictures to outline this? Lastly the Stage 1 V8 had a flush front grill while I've seen "original looking" conversions like the Tonka. Do standard conversion kits require a flush front grill?

The Tonka is only "original looking" thanks to the brilliance of Matt Browne - Overland Engineering - and the fact that I already had a power steering conversion. Jake Wright (Burely in Whafdale) did me a nice deal on a conversion kit to mate it to the SIII gearbox. The bulkhead and footwells need a bit of chopping and changing sparkplugs can be a bitch, but the bulkhead end of it isn't the problem. Matt fit a narrowed RRC radiator with integral oil cooler in there because he was able - with much welly - to get rid of the old steering box mount and sit the rad right on the crossmember. You loose the bonnet latch and have to go to exterior hook latches, but it keeps it very neat and that RRC rad has kept it plenty cool. You can get away with keeping a 4 core Series rad in place - if you don't have much hot weather - but you loose the engine driven fan and have to go electric. Wasn't and wouldn't be my choice.

On the gearbox, you're playing roulette. The Tonka doesn't see a lot of high rpm stuff on trail and it travels mainly by trailer on road, so limited risk. Mind you, I'm thinking about graduating to an R380.....

TDI/Series box is pretty safe IMHO and lots of nice low end torque. Good luck

[FridgeFreezer]

I read somewhere that the SIII Stage I V8 had the front cross member moved to fit the V8. Was this because the Range Rover gearbox was fitted to the Stage I V8 and hence if you stay with an original SIII or SII gearbox this is not required?

You mention some bulkhead work. How significant is this? Are there any pictures to outline this? Lastly the Stage 1 V8 had a flush front grill while I've seen "original looking" conversions like the Tonka. Do standard conversion kits require a flush front grill?

You can put a V8 in without moving the rad panel/cross-members, the reason a lot of people do it is because clearance can be tight between the engine & radiator when using the original mounts / conversion kit. I have a V8 in a Series with a clear 30cm between radiator & engine