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Hydraulic Steering


najw

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But, IIRC Agricultural have restrictions which make it not possible, either on speed or miles usage on road

on the other hand i'm more than likely talking cr@p :lol:

How many miles do most challenge vehicles do on road and how likely are tey to exceed 60 km/h transiting between stages???? ;)

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From wherever I found it :ph34r:

Road vehicle Construction and Use Regulations

All vehicles used on the public highway in the UK must comply with the Construction and Use Regulations (C+U). These Regulations establish rules for the safety of the vehicle, both for the vehicle's occupants and for other road users. C+U includes requirements for braking, lights, seatbelts and many other safety features. The rules are different for different types and uses of vehicle (e.g. there is no need for seatbelts on motorcycles and the requirements for agricultural tractors are different to those for passenger carrying vehicles) but nonetheless the C+U regs will always apply, to a greater or lesser extent, to any vehicle used on the road. In addition, there are requirements for taxing and insuring most vehicles which will apply but these are outside the scope of this discussion.

In the first instance, compliance with C+U is the responsibility of the driver of the vehicle, but in the vast majority of cases concerning new vehicles, the vehicle manufacturer actually deals with this on behalf of the driver by submitting the vehicle for European Whole Vehicle Type Approval. Once the vehicle has the appropriate type approval, all the driver has to do is to submit the vehicle for regular MOT check-ups to ensure it remains safe.

Type Approvals and the SVA

Type Approval (also known as homologation) is a harmonised process. This means that the rules are the same in all EU states and if the vehicle type is approved in one state, all other EU states will recognise the approval and will not demand that a separate approval be obtained before the vehicle can be sold or used in their territory. This is because it is a procedure designed for use by volume manufacturers who want to make a single model of vehicle for sale in multiple countries.

Type Approval is also expensive, and it involves an assessment of manufacturing capability (quality control) so it's not a procedure which can be followed by an individual who has manufactured a special vehicle (or modified a homologated vehicle), or who has imported a single vehicle from outside the area where the Type Approval applies (e.g. from the US into the UK).

For these circumstances there is a special procedure, called the Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) which is similar to the MOT test but assesses the design of the vehicle as well as its condition. Single Vehicle Approval only allows use in the UK and must be obtained before the vehicle can be taxed and used on the road.

There is also a half-way house between European Whole Vehicle Type Approval and SVA called "The UK Low Volume Approval Scheme for Cars". It is open to low-volume car manufacturers (up to 500 cars per year) and their authorised representatives to get their cars approved for UK road use only without having to get each car inspected individually and without the administrative burden of European Whole Vehicle Type Approval.

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:unsure:

Agricultural tractors, off-road tractors, agricultural engines or light agricultural vehicles, as defined below.

Agricultural tractor , a tractor used on public roads solely for purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture, forestry or

activities falling within:

a) Cutting verges bordering public roads;

B) Cutting hedges or trees bordering public roads or bordering verges, which border public roads.

Off road Tractor, a tractor which is not an agricultural tractor and which is:

a) Designed and constructed primarily for use other than on roads, and

B) Incapable by reason of its construction of exceeding a speed of 25mph on the level under its own power.

Agricultural Engine , a machine specially designed/converted to perform an agricultural operation on the land (e.g. a

combine harvester).

Light agricultural vehicle , a vehicle which:

a) Has a revenue weight not exceeding 1000kg,

B) Is designed and constructed so as to seat only the driver,

c) Is designed and constructed primarily for use other than on roads, and

d) Is used solely for purposes relating to agriculture, horticulture or forestry.

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I've never trailered my vehicle in my life and have no intension to do so.

This is partly to show the lads we're hardcore, but mainly because I have no vehicle capable of towing a trailer or actually have a trailer. In my opinion trailering = cheating. Besides, the fact that most organizers of events now require tax, mot and insurance make the whole towing idea a non starter to me.

So, I need a proper road legal vehicle.

Daan

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erm... think that might need looking at

gator.jpg

our 6x6 last year was road legal and it had bench seats in the back and 2 front seats

this year we have a 4x4 with a pope mobile bubble cab......... and two seats

no problems with registration, insurance or anything else - you just order it from the dealer :)

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The onus is on the owner to ensure to vehicle complies with the law/construction and use...not the insurance company...

look at it this way...your house is insured, but it don't mean that when you fitted a new bathroom, it complied with building regulations does it ? ;)

My house is 50 years old, when it was built it wouldn't comply with the regulations we have today - just as a brand new Series1/2/3 vehicle would never pass an SVA now. That does not mean that the insurance co would be able to refuse - they know what they are insuring within reason, just as when you tell them you have modified X,Y,Z if they want an engineers report they will ask for one. How many common mods would actually comply to C+U yet the insurance don't ask about them / don't reject claims because of them?

Les can you tell us how many of the mods you had to remove from your truck for the SVA and why?

I suppose Will could classify his 90 as a tractor as it never goes faster than 25mph and doesn't do any miles on (or off) road :lol:

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I suppose Will could classify his 90 as a tractor as it never goes faster than 25mph and doesn't do any miles on (or off) road :lol:

Very good :P This isn't a 90 point, though - that will always be 100% road legal and will rarely be trailered! I'm just thinking that I've got vehicle plans that will pretty much need full hydro steer (a mechanical linkage would be VERY Heith Robinson), will struggle to pass as a comercial vehicle as it's quite clearly not and will see very little road use. The only reason for road legality is to allow it to compete (plus it'll be fun to occasionally take it down to the shops :ph34r: )

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I've never trailered my vehicle in my life and have no intension to do so.

This is partly to show the lads we're hardcore, but mainly because I have no vehicle capable of towing a trailer or actually have a trailer. In my opinion trailering = cheating. Besides, the fact that most organizers of events now require tax, mot and insurance make the whole towing idea a non starter to me.

So, I need a proper road legal vehicle.

Daan

I'm with Dann

in the UK trailering is cheating :)

drive there drive home the only way to go.

maybe a class for events?(no hiding trailers around the corner though :)

With the SVA

this must start coming down to people dodging VED/Safety (not saying anyone here is)

the old S1 hybrid (tax exempt) I had retained only part of the bodywork and chassis rails.

glad its gone saves being troubled by SVA.

seems far safer to get it SVA'd if you're in any doubt to save the angst of being involved in an accident and being the one blamed for killing anyone

whilst driving something not safe to be one the roads or a vehicle that although safe should have a restricted top speed perhaps?

Just thoughts/opinion

Les going through SVA is a real bonus to this site having some real world experience.

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I'm interested in SVAing my vehicle as an argicultural engine or some kind of tractor, I dont care about being limited to 25mph and the red diesel and free tax appeals to me, has anyone got any links that might be helpfull?

Or does anyone see a mjor pitfall?

Lewis :)

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Better to say what they acctually checked :D

For commercial.....

Chassis number and design weights

Engine number and proof of year of manufacture

General construction

Fuel tank level had to be full for weights

Check of engine bay, including master cyl, routing of brake pipe etc

onto Ramp...

3/4 Hour checking underneath, tapping etc, steering, fuel system and general construction

onto weigh front axle weight....rear axle weight

No checks at all to lighting :blink:

emmisions.....check

Exhaust noise

that was it :huh:

all in all about 3 1/2 hours....except that he did'nt like the front axle weight, so we had to make a new chassis plate to comply

................................................................................

................................................................................

.......

Bearing in mind

I had removed the cage/winches/fitted standard bumpers

No sharp edges on the bodywork

tyres were covered by arches etc

made sure there were no protrusions inside as per SVA manual

everything was clipped on the chassis at less than 6 inch interval including the engine bay,

insulating boots were fitted to battery terminal/starter/alternator etc, heat resisting sleeving where required

all mechanical moving parts were protected from fingers

Plastic caps over all steering components.....might not need this but 100 caps were £10 and I did'nt want to take the risk

Seatbelts were ok

Pessenger is another matter.....Rangie/Disco owners beware :rtfm:

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so as soon as you re-install the winches etc its not SVA compliant - which puts challenge trucks back into the world of legal vagueness again? :unsure:

it would seem that providing you build a car that passes the SVA and then make no further modifications you are belt and braces - otherwise even fitting winch bumpers (with thier associated less than pedestrian friendly lumps and bumps) would expose the driver to legal comeback, I know it sounds picky but thats how I would interpret the rules - pretty much everyone is breaking the rules, in which case does it matter? the law doesnt discriminate between fitment of a winch bumper and full hydro - neither mod would pass SVA and therefore in theory we are all dammed to hell and should be publicly flogged but the reality seems to be that neither insurers or MOT inspectors care?!?

thoughts?

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The front axle issue was the original chassis plate it was rated at 998 Kg

and with a 200 TDI & standard bumper fitted weighed in at exactly 998 Kg without the driver

so we had to up the axle weight to 1200, checked my reciept for uptated axle components eg ARB and Ashcroft shafts......what for I don't know...but 90's etc IIRC are now rated to 1200

and he guy would only accept info from a manufactures workshop manual not Haynes manual :lol:

Blimey this has drifted of topic :blink: to my build sorry :rolleyes:

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so as soon as you re-install the winches etc its not SVA compliant - which puts challenge trucks back into the world of legal vagueness again? :unsure:

it would seem that providing you build a car that passes the SVA and then make no further modifications you are belt and braces - otherwise even fitting winch bumpers (with thier associated less than pedestrian friendly lumps and bumps) would expose the driver to legal comeback, I know it sounds picky but thats how I would interpret the rules - pretty much everyone is breaking the rules, in which case does it matter? the law doesnt discriminate between fitment of a winch bumper and full hydro - neither mod would pass SVA and therefore in theory we are all dammed to hell and should be publicly flogged but the reality seems to be that neither insurers or MOT inspectors care?!?

thoughts?

Now here's a thing.....on a commercial a winch bumper is acceptable ( I asked ), my rear winch was still in place....and one is ok for a passenger if it passes the dreaded 2.5mm radious dooofer thingy which is not required for a commercial :D .....see what I'm getting at ?

get it through as a commercial....have fun with the passenger :angry:

I could have left the roll cage on again for a commerical but not a passenger :blink:

Fee....£60 commercial

£190 for passenger.....shows how much more they check <_<

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Mine went through as a amateur build...

I choose the design weights etc etc (once it failed on the front), it has no type approval details other than the design weights, its not a kit car so there's nothing to compare it against, so strictly speaking anything goes :lol:

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Les, that was very useful and gives a good insight into what actually happens.

I may have to go and have a word with an inspector to get the final opinion on full hydro.

make sure you present him with facts though Will - not prevailing myth from guys that once saw a picture of a guy that once knew a fella etc etc, the main point being the ability to steer with a dead engine/busted belt etc as the system has been designed by the valve maunfacturers for road vehicle steering as opposed to plant handling applications. anyone got a phone number worth ringing?

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Bingo - gents we have the definitive courtesy of the manager of the SVA station in Newbury (cant get over how helpful he was :i-m_so_happy: )

"under current legislation fully hydraulic steering does not pass construction and use regulations for the speeds and vehicle classification you are subscribing to"

he went on to confirm that hybrid hydro is lovely and cursory mechanical links are also dandy providing;

"in the event of total lack of hydraulic assistance the steering wheel is able to affect a change in the direction of the vehicles travel" he followed that up by stating "it doesnt matter just how much force is necessary to do that as theres no quantified effort in the book - so I dont care if you have to use a bar and lever against the door as long as they move"

top lad :)

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So, if I go pootling off in my hydro steered vapourware truck which has a new MOT am I waiting to be pulled over by Mr Plod, reported to Mrs VOSA by a passer-by or simply chancing my luck with an 'uninsured' truck.

Purely hypothetical as I don't have one anyway

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