dollythelw Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 judging by Mr Plods current level of training/observation (or them just wanting to get on an bust real criminals) the likelyhood of being reported to anyone or questioned beyond "can you show me your MOT certificate etc please" is biblically unlikely Ive been pulled in 5 countries with a full hydro car (including the UK) and once they have seen an MOT certificate the worse Ive been asked for is if its ok for the feds to have a picture of the car because they think it looks cool as for the insurance - well mine calls for a current MOT, drivers licence and road tax, even looking through the small print theres no mention of C&U compliance - if they welch then its in theory breach of a published contract and time for briefs to have a punch up (legal cover included in policy) - but equally likely to be foul of the law as lads running non-sva or post-sva-modded trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 "under current legislation fully hydraulic steering does not pass construction and use regulations for the speeds and vehicle classification you are subscribing to"he went on to confirm that hybrid hydro is lovely and cursory mechanical links are also dandy providing; So does that mean that petal's hydro setup is in a legally happy place since you have steering if the assistance (pump) fails, or is it back in the grey area as there is no direct mechanical backup if the valve-to-ram pipe fails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Doubtful as if the lines split and fluid was lost there would be no steering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 So does that mean that petal's hydro setup is in a legally happy place since you have steering if the assistance (pump) fails, or is it back in the grey area as there is no direct mechanical backup if the valve-to-ram pipe fails? Petals steering wouldnt pass an SVA as she stands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 Doubtful as if the lines split and fluid was lost there would be no steering. In much the same way that if a mechanical link broke there would be no steering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Very true make sure you don't go welding any steering components either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 In much the same way that if a mechanical link broke there would be no steering 920bar three wire - gooooooood stuff, doubles as a recovery point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy boy Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I got in touch with the policy man at the Dept for Transport responsible for Construction and Use and he researched the issue before answering. Under C&U it states that you have to have a link of metallic material or similar properties in the steering system. Must connect all the way from steering wheel to steered wheels. So you can use carbon fibre etc. But specifically not hoses and hydraulic fluid as this is not possessing the "metallic" type properties. All vehicles on the road have to comply with C&U for that particular class of vehicle (eg PLG, agri etc). Being non C&U compliant is an offence and negates your insurance. MOT checks that the vehicle is basically sound at the time of the check. It does not check C&U compliance. SVA does check C&U compliance. FB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 I got in touch with the policy man at the Dept for Transport responsible for Construction and Use and he researched the issue before answering.Under C&U it states that you have to have a link of metallic material or similar properties in the steering system. Must connect all the way from steering wheel to steered wheels. So you can use carbon fibre etc. But specifically not hoses and hydraulic fluid as this is not possessing the "metallic" type properties. All vehicles on the road have to comply with C&U for that particular class of vehicle (eg PLG, agri etc). Being non C&U compliant is an offence and negates your insurance. MOT checks that the vehicle is basically sound at the time of the check. It does not check C&U compliance. SVA does check C&U compliance. FB Very comprehensive, thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 How about running the hydraulics with Mercury? This has all been very useful. I have decided to go down the route of a ram, drilled steering box (as per hydro-assist) and a not-particularly-manly link between the box and the ram. In practice the ram will be doing most of the work, but in the event of loosing pressure, you should be able to affect some steering via the pencil thick link! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthy boy Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 How about running the hydraulics with Mercury? This has all been very useful. I have decided to go down the route of a ram, drilled steering box (as per hydro-assist) and a not-particularly-manly link between the box and the ram. In practice the ram will be doing most of the work, but in the event of loosing pressure, you should be able to affect some steering via the pencil thick link! Si Si Don't forget the catch all "fit for purpose"! Why do you need the link to be so weak? Even with a Forth Railway Bridge girder type shaft the ram can still do the work. It will be like an "Extreme Audi". They have so much assist they lose feeling but still have solid connections. Just "over servoed". Techy term. FB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Abel Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Well im not to bothered I think that there are better things to worry about, how many of you exceeded the speed limit today? It is good to know where you stand but most challenge motors are a legal minefield as we now know. Don’t let your self become swallowed up by this country’s Red tape! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 How about running the hydraulics with Mercury? Damn you beat me to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 How about running the hydraulics with Mercury? How does that work then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread....highlight=boost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Yes, but I have a tester who doesn't mind. I understand they are legal everywhere else but the WRC boys have to fit a cable for GB I don't have a problem with it as I use the park on the autobox rather than the handbrake and it's far better than most Landy handbrakes. Definately not recommended as a substitute for a proper working handbrake. I have recently on 2 separate occasions had to strip and repair the Park pall and gears on ZF Disco boxes because of people using the park position instead of the handbrake when winching bogged vehicles or tree stumps out of the ground. bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Definately not recommended as a substitute for a proper working handbrake.I have recently on 2 separate occasions had to strip and repair the Park pall and gears on ZF Disco boxes because of people using the park position instead of the handbrake when winching bogged vehicles or tree stumps out of the ground. bill. It's a TH350 and I don't winch, I one of a small band of racers here. But agreed, I wouldn't rely on it in extreme circumstances. I'm nearly always parked in a level pits or in the workshop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathtub Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 920bar three wire - gooooooood stuff, doubles as a recovery point Just to add my pennys worth about it. All i can say but i supose it wouldnt be a defence in court for full hydro is that i have had 2 track rods fail on the road & 3 offroad & all with the result of instant loss of steering.If the Hydro springs a leak at say 50mph {not the hose coming off a leak of a decent size} how quick would you loose steering ,plus would it still at least steer in a straight line . NOT just cut across all 3 lanes of the M3 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Just to add my pennys worth about it. All i can say but i supose it wouldnt be a defence in court for full hydro is that i have had 2 track rods fail on the road & 3 offroad & all with the result of instant loss of steering.If the Hydro springs a leak at say 50mph {not the hose coming off a leak of a decent size} how quick would you loose steering ,plus would it still at least steer in a straight line . NOT just cut across all 3 lanes of the M3 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have not had steering fail on the road or had rose joints fail but on site I do suffer from Hydroic hoses blowing all the sodding time on construction equipment and the mess that it and greenies regs I have to jump through hopes. Some will use good quality components others will not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHummer-Ed Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 It's not totally OT, but, at work we have big problems if components become contamination with hydraulic oil from forklifts etc. All the lifts have had all the hoses replaced with stainless, breaded hoses and we have not had a single leak since. A lot of the problem with 'rubber' hoses is the swaged end cutting in to the rubber. The outer of the braided hose is muc tougher and a lot more flexible too. Might be worth sourcing breaded hoses for this too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Pete - when the system is low on oil you get two alarms, one if the fkin horrendous squeeling from the pump. the second is the lack of power assistance. NoHummer - do you mean armoured hose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHummer-Ed Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 NoHummer - do you mean armoured hose? Kind of - it's a PTFE hose covered in stainless bread. The hose is fairly thin walled and the whole thing is very flexible. I think it's similar to the used for flexible brake pipes. Where electrical shorts are possible, the bread is covered with a plastic sheath. Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Kind of - it's a PTFE hose covered in stainless bread. Ed braid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Im digging the idea of stainless bread dollop of aluminium margarine and some lead marmalade could you ping up a link to the hose Ed? sounds interesting - I use parker no-skive and its seriously strong but theres always room for improvement thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHummer-Ed Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Ah ha - i see I have written a funny. Sorry my spelling is often as it sounds. I have asked one of the guys in stores where we get it from and he says it is the same as goodrich hose. He says go to Exact Engineering 01803 866464. They are in Devon because they do not have a web site. I don't know if that's actually where we buy it, but it was who he suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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