Cone Handbrake conversion?

[Lara]

Not read everything on this post as I am a bit short of time lately but have the following to say.

We come into contact with a lot of cone clutches in the pre-war car field and we try to remove them as fast as possible!

In general they are horrible, with more reasons for not working than I can count (and I can count to at least 100 )

Dirt is a major problem, and if using metal to metal, someone is sure to try to use it while the vehicle is moving, Seizure is 100% guaranteed. Drums work ok, discs work great, why do we need a cone? if you want to reduce the dia, add another caliper to the disc and reduce the dia.

Lara.

[simonr]

if you want to reduce the dia, add another caliper to the disc and reduce the dia.

Thanks for the input. If only it were that simple!

The particular application was Jeep & Toyota where I reckon the max diameter of the 'Disk' would be 12cm. 8cm of that is taken up by the drive flange so the pad/caliper needs to be very shallow (1.5cm). Sadly, there are no suitable calipers available - and it's a tall order to make one that will grip tight enough.

I'll carry on in pursuit of a caliper design rather than the cone - perhaps it was a crappy idea! I have plenty more in there!

Si

[tonyalbers]

Thanks for the input. If only it were that simple!

The particular application was Jeep & Toyota where I reckon the max diameter of the 'Disk' would be 12cm. 8cm of that is taken up by the drive flange so the pad/caliper needs to be very shallow (1.5cm). Sadly, there are no suitable calipers available - and it's a tall order to make one that will grip tight enough.

I'll carry on in pursuit of a caliper design rather than the cone - perhaps it was a crappy idea! I have plenty more in there!

Si

I know for a fact that on old cranes here in DK they use a belt for the brake. It's an interesting solution, where a wheel(you could say a drum where the outside is used instead of the inside), is surrounded by a belt made of steel. When you apply the brake, you tension the belt, which grips the wheel/drum and keeps it from rotating. It's a very simple mechanical construction, but it can easily be put in some sort of enclosure to keep it free fom mud etc.

Might be worth a thought.

/tony

[GBMUD]

a wheel(you could say a drum where the outside is used instead of the inside), is surrounded by a belt made of steel. When you apply the brake, you tension the belt, which grips the wheel/drum and keeps it from rotating.

Called a band brake. Quite popular on machines, trains etc.

Chris

[Mark]

My belleview winch still has a band brake:

admiteddly, the band is missing, but they are supposed to be very effective.

[Turbocharger]

Si - if you can't go diameter, go longitudinal - multi-plate clutch with the discs on splines and a floating pad or two?

[simonr]

Si - if you can't go diameter, go longitudinal - multi-plate clutch with the discs on splines and a floating pad or two?

Not far off my current thinking. I spoke to Lara today who told me how the brakes on aircraft wheels work - dry multi-plate, metal on metal with a ring of pistons pushing them together.

That gave me a different idea. Imagine a shoe polish tin with a screw on lid and a big hole in both the lid and bottom of the tin. Put disk in tin such that when you screw on lid, it squashes the disk between the two halves. make lots of holes in the circumference of the tin to let mud out - and there you have it.

The thread (v.course Acme square cut) can be sealed between cup seals. Each half connects to one lever which are pulled together by a spring on one side and the cable on the other.

The bottom half is connected to the back plate via a pair of pins with greased slides, sealed with O rings.

Might even work!

Si

[western]

on the aircraft I work on [bae Hawk] the brakes are 3 plate [multi sections] these are the rotors keyed to the inside of the wheel hub, betwen these are stator plates [attached to the backplate] with friction material attached & the pistons/fluid gallerys are built into the brake unit mounting plate [4 pistons equally spaced] acting on the inner rotor which squeezes the whole assembly together similar to the sliding piston calipers on some cars.

[GBMUD]

Not far off my current thinking. I spoke to Lara today who told me how the brakes on aircraft wheels work - dry multi-plate, metal on metal with a ring of pistons pushing them together.

That gave me a different idea. Imagine a shoe polish tin with a screw on lid and a big hole in both the lid and bottom of the tin. Put disk in tin such that when you screw on lid, it squashes the disk between the two halves. make lots of holes in the circumference of the tin to let mud out - and there you have it.

The thread (v.course Acme square cut) can be sealed between cup seals. Each half connects to one lever which are pulled together by a spring on one side and the cable on the other.

The bottom half is connected to the back plate via a pair of pins with greased slides, sealed with O rings.

Might even work!

Si

You could drill holes in the existing drum and manufacture a sealed expander mechanism with less effort.

Chris

[pugwash]

That gave me a different idea. Imagine a shoe polish tin with a screw on lid and a big hole in both the lid and bottom of the tin. Put disk in tin such that when you screw on lid, it squashes the disk between the two halves. make lots of holes in the circumference of the tin to let mud out - and there you have it.

i was going to suggest a clutch arrangement- but it's exactly what you are talking about above, one day i'll haev an original idea.

[bill van snorkle]

I know for a fact that on old cranes here in DK they use a belt for the brake. It's an interesting solution, where a wheel(you could say a drum where the outside is used instead of the inside), is surrounded by a belt made of steel. When you apply the brake, you tension the belt, which grips the wheel/drum and keeps it from rotating. It's a very simple mechanical construction, but it can easily be put in some sort of enclosure to keep it free fom mud etc.

Might be worth a thought.

/tony

I n the early days of motoring up to around 1930 many cars had that type of braking system, known as ''external contracting band type'' The bands were originally lined with woven horse hair, later woven asbestos. It wasn't very effective, they barely slowed down let alone stop.Some US truck makers persisted with this design for transmission park brakes as late as the 1970's. Then came the common , well proven,widely used internal expanding drum design, which due to the designed in self servo action still has the best holding power particularly for a parking/hand brake, but as many of you have discovered are prone to filling up with mud and jamning up the works. I am very impressed that Si has managed to develop a disc park brake that works well as my own efforts some 20 years ago on a Jeep transfercase using a Fiat rear disc and mechanical caliper was a dismal failure.

Bill.