DIY Front Salisbury Axle

[92.9]

I've been reading up on Salisbury axles and have a question for you all!

Due to the scarcity of Salisbury front axles for Land Rovers I was wondering if anyone has actually made one for themselves, using a rear axle and the steering swivels from a Rover-type front axle.

I imagine that the casing would be relatively easy, but I wouldn't know about the half-shafts.

[FridgeFreezer]

Well you could buy genuine Salisbury front half shafts, but that would kinda defeat the cost-saving part of the exercise

The salisbury half shafts are 24 spline and I don't know what, if anything, may fit for a front axle. I don't think anything Series had 24-spline inners, and all the early RR/Defender stuff is 10-spline too. I think later Series had 24-spline outers to match the salisbury drive flanges, perhaps some sort of cut-n-shut or reversal could be done but it starts to sound like a lot of work...

Alternative is whether you could make some 10-spline output gears for the salisbury diff, again could be tricky depending on what you've got access to.

[white90]

The shafts are marginally bigger than Rover ones the diff is nearer the ground and the whole thing weighs a fair bit more.

a couple of downsides

[92.9]

I'm not an engineer, but a few of my friends are. Having said that, I think it would be asking a bit much to get one of them to make gears for me!

Any idea how much Salisbury front half shafts are? That would make the whole thing possible if the rest of the job only involved fabricating a suitable axle case from existing Land Rover parts.

Mike

[92.9]

The shafts are marginally bigger than Rover ones the diff is nearer the ground and the whole thing weighs a fair bit more.

a couple of downsides

The reason why I was thinking along these lines is to be able to have 9.00 16 tyres and not break half shafts. The other reason why I was thinking along these lines is that I'm at that stage with my project where you start to get lots of silly ideas.

[bill van snorkle]

Yes I made a front one around 15 years ago to compliment my widened out and beefed up salisbury rear. I started with the rear axle assembly from an American D1100 International Pickup Dana 60

These are wide enough that they do not require retubing to have a long leg on the LHS when making a front RangeRover width axle. To fit the Series Landy swivel assemblies I machined up some heavy flanges with integral sleeves that were a press fit over the D 60 axle tubes.then welded them on.I fitted a Salisbury 4.7:1 Crownwheel and pinion including 4 pinion carrier to this housing with 24 spline inner halfshafts and Landy 110 cv's. I also fitted both leaf and coil suspension bracketry as my vehicle was still leaf sprung at the time but I was planning a coil conversion in the future.

IMO the result was overkill and a waste of effort as the 110 Landy constant velocity joints (AEU2522) are simply not strong enough to take full advantage of the much stronger differential in order to run large tyres in extreme conditions. I offset the diff as far to the RHS as possible but the ground clearance was poor even after I trimmed (shaved) nearly 1 '' of excess metal from the bottom. I used These diffs front and back (with staggered diameter duall wheels on rear) for some years, but on 35/36'' tyres I got hung up on the front diff far too often, so eventually decided to build up some portals on Rover housings.

Bill.

[92.9]

Thanks for the information Bill. I'll scrap that idea then. Now, I can't prevent myself from asking about the portal axles. Can you tell us more?

Thanks

Mike

[FridgeFreezer]

It's a pity Andy's website is down at the moment as he had some good Salisbury tech on there about shaving the bottom of the diff - ended up with more clearance than a Rover

Yes they're heavy and the shafts are not a lot stronger than rover, but the diff itself is pretty unburstable. They make a lot of sense as a back axle IMHO but the cost of bits means a front is a less tempting proposition. 9.00x16's are not huge (33-34" rolling diameter) with a salisbury rear and a bit of mechanical sympathy I can't see why it would be such a problem, the 1-ton landies ran them and although some had salisbury fronts others had stock fronts with 4-pin Rover diffs. The back axle takes more load/abuse in most off-road situations so I would be less concerned with what's up front.

If you want real silliness, go for a pair of 101 axles although these days for the money going to Mog or Volvo portals makes a lot of sense, it's more buggering about and/or money but the benefits are far greater than spending a similar amount of time and money on Rover parts.

[bill van snorkle]

Why anyone would suggest making a Sals front axle and then converting to 10 spline halfshafts has got me flummaxed ! What a complete wasteof time and effort that would be.

You could always try to track down a LandRover 101 front end. These have larger, stronger halfshafts and appropriate size constant velocity joints as standard. I would think they would be relatively easy to get in the UK. Even way out here in the Antipodes I managed to by 2 101 fronts a few years back.

Bill.

[92.9]

It's a pity Andy's website is down at the moment as he had some good Salisbury tech on there about shaving the bottom of the diff - ended up with more clearance than a Rover

Yes they're heavy and the shafts are not a lot stronger than rover, but the diff itself is pretty unburstable. They make a lot of sense as a back axle IMHO but the cost of bits means a front is a less tempting proposition. 9.00x16's are not huge (33-34" rolling diameter) with a salisbury rear and a bit of mechanical sympathy I can't see why it would be such a problem, the 1-ton landies ran them and although some had salisbury fronts others had stock fronts with 4-pin Rover diffs. The back axle takes more load/abuse in most off-road situations so I would be less concerned with what's up front.

If you want real silliness, go for a pair of 101 axles although these days for the money going to Mog or Volvo portals makes a lot of sense, it's more buggering about and/or money but the benefits are far greater than spending a similar amount of time and money on Rover parts.

I'm not too abusive in the off-roading department, so maybe I'll get away with my 9.00 16 idea. How would I go about getting a 4-pin differential for my front axle? Are they standard in some other Land Rover application? I'll be using my 4.7:1 standard front.

Mike

[bill van snorkle]

Thanks for the information Bill. I'll scrap that idea then. Now, I can't prevent myself from asking about the portal axles. Can you tell us more?

Thanks

Mike

There is a rather long winded thread on my portals and some other stuff on page 3 of the Members vehicles forum.

Bill.

[92.9]

Thanks Bill, I'll have a look

Mike

[92.9]

Well, that was an hour well spent! Blimey, what a spectacular display of ingenuity . If you haven't done so already I hope you get the chance to benefit greatly from all your skills. There must be a market for some of your devices and inventions.

Mike

A couple of quick links to Bill's pages in case anyone new stumbles upon this thread:

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=6428

http://groups.msn.com/wildfingsphotos/shoebox.msnw

[will_warne]

I'm not too abusive in the off-roading department, so maybe I'll get away with my 9.00 16 idea. How would I go about getting a 4-pin differential for my front axle? Are they standard in some other Land Rover application? I'll be using my 4.7:1 standard front.

Mike

FYI, Ali read ran Rover halfshafts and a series diff in his challenge truck (200tdi and 35" Simex) for a couple of years without breaking anything. Ali is not what you would call mechanically sympethetic either

With 9.00 x 16's and not too much power a Rover axle should be OK. Series front halfshafts are pretty tough so the weak link will be the diff. Did LR ever make a 10 spline 4-pin diff?????

[Jon White]

. Series front halfshafts are pretty tough so the weak link will be the diff. Did LR ever make a 10 spline 4-pin diff?????

rubbish! Tonk and I both do series front half shafts in for a pastime! I'm currently running an experimental one we made in an effort to make some stronger ones. I've already broken one of the experimental ones!!!

I run 33's tonk runs 34's we both kill shafts. Inners and outers, but mostly inners. We run 10 spline inners as its all you can get and late 24 spline outers.

Jon

[will_warne]

rubbish! Tonk and I both do series front half shafts in for a pastime! I'm currently running an experimental one we made in an effort to make some stronger ones. I've already broken one of the experimental ones!!!

I run 33's tonk runs 34's we both kill shafts. Inners and outers, but mostly inners. We run 10 spline inners as its all you can get and late 24 spline outers.

Jon

Fair enough, Jon. Its been a long time since I played with series stuff. When I spoke to Tonk about this last he reckoned they were a lot better than coiler shafts (not difficult, though) and he thought the reason he was breaking his was the UJ binding.

[Tonk]

Fair enough, Jon. Its been a long time since I played with series stuff. When I spoke to Tonk about this last he reckoned they were a lot better than coiler shafts (not difficult, though) and he thought the reason he was breaking his was the UJ binding.

i was breaking the uj's because they were binding, i can easily break shafts aswell as jon can

[Tonk]

FYI, Ali read ran Rover halfshafts and a series diff in his challenge truck (200tdi and 35" Simex) for a couple of years without breaking anything. Ali is not what you would call mechanically sympethetic either

Will,

no he didn't, he ran series gearing in the shape of Kam ring and pinions, 4.75:1, with an ARB in the middle, so no series stuff there then

[will_warne]

Will,

no he didn't, he ran series gearing in the shape of Kam ring and pinions, 4.75:1, with an ARB in the middle, so no series stuff there then

I could've sworn he ran a series diff and standard rover shafts before he fitted the second ARB and overload hubs etc on the front.....

[PaulMc]

Hobsons Industries in Louth, Lincs. - Hobsons Industries have, for the past couple of years, been selling ex-MoD, N.I., 110 Armoured Patrol Vehicle, Salisbury front axles for about £600 (I think ).

For this money, as well as the complete front axle with hubs, calipers, discs, halfshafts, etc..., they include the double-cardan front prop., the heavy duty radius arms and Panhard rod.

Paul.

[92.9]

Thanks everyone.

How would I go about fitting a 4-pin differential, as Fridge Freezer suggested? Are they a standard Land Rover item in another vehicle?

Mike

[FridgeFreezer]

Some of the more special coilers (V8 90 50th among others I think) had 4-pin diffs but they are of course the wrong ratio, you may be able to sort it out but TBH you're either going to end up moving the weak link down the chain a bit to a shaft or UJ, or spending so much time & money you could've stuck something far stronger under there to start with - Toyota, Nissan, Mog, etc.

[92.9]

Okay, I'll scrap that idea too! I don't really want to start spending thousands of pounds as it will defeat the object of the whole project. I like the idea of C303 axles, but they are a bit too expensive.

Do you happen to know the diameter of the standard 6.00 16 tyre? I'm trying to work out what effect it will have on the gearing of my car if I ever get to fit 9.00 16s.

Thanks

[dirtydiesel]

I too have looked into this conversion.

The first stumbling block i came across was that if you try and use a rear axle at the front one of the axle tubes is short and the other is too long, not too much of a problem other than the tube's don't have a standard od and wall so you'd be into extending the short tube (a bit bodgy) or canibleising anther axle for it's long tube.

i planned on useing defender front shafts from ashcroft in it along with early defender axle ends, this would mean the axle would end up around 40mm wider than a standard coiler axle (due to the bigger diff center)

The two things that stopped me doing this conversion were lack of decent cv's (at the time), and i found mogs

[92.9]

I was looking at Unimog axles, but was put off by the fact that the differentials are in the wrong place, so it seemed to be a lot of work before you got to the stage of having the equivalent to C303 axles.

It's a nice idea having the C303 axles, but as I said, a bit too expensive for my project. I was encouraged by reading that the standard axles are a straight bolt-on job for a Series Land Rover, but then in true internet style, I read elsewhere that they weren't a straight bolt-on job!