ThreeSheds Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 as a bulk user of edible cooking oils i tend to get through quite a lot of the stuff. What you find is that over time a very large % of water is mixed in with the oil as foods cook. <cut & shut> I have no knowledge of this, but am amazed that oil that has been at, what? 150deg C ? has any water content at all. I guess you learn something new every day... Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I googled the subject of running deisel engines fitted with distributor type injection pumps on veg oil and the general consensus is that due to the extremely fine clearances involved the pumps can and do suffer premature wear and failure unless a system is rigged up whereby the engine is started on deisel,run on veg and then shut down on deisel to prevent any fats solidifying inside the works of the pump which may restrict proper operation and or lubrication. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 running deisel engines fitted with distributor type injection pumps on veg oil and the general consensus is that due to the extremely fine clearances involved the pumps can and do suffer premature wear and failure Apparently, it comes down to the type of pumps. Lucas ones on 200/300tdi once seem fine, where as CAV ones die. Also, (apparently) merc and BMW seem to be manufactured to be more tolerant, due to the higher use of veg/bio diesel in europe. Again, all apparently, from bits and piece I've read all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Apparently, it comes down to the type of pumps. Lucas ones on 200/300tdi once seem fine, where as CAV ones die.Also, (apparently) merc and BMW seem to be manufactured to be more tolerant, due to the higher use of veg/bio diesel in europe. Again, all apparently, from bits and piece I've read all over the place. The pumps often mentioned giving problems in my limited research were in fact Lucas CAV DPA types. Inline Jerk type pumps as fitted to many better built Deisel engines are apparently suitable for running on Veg, crude oil, animal fats etc with good long term reliabilty so long as suitable filtration is provided.. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 The pumps often mentioned giving problems in my limited research were in fact Lucas CAV DPA types. Well, I'm showing my ignorance now. I thought Lucas and CAV were separate companies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Well, I'm showing my ignorance now. I thought Lucas and CAV were separate companies They may well be, I'm not sure. I think DPA stands for ''distributor pump assembly'' and the same production rights were sold to Lucas, CAV, Bosch, Stanadyne and quite a few other companies around the world. I am not sure that the design principal of a single, generally lower pressure pump serving all cylinders like the DPA type allow for much variation in machining tolerances between manufacturers, unlike the generally higher pressure inline pumps which are really individual pumps for each cylinder built into a single assembly which are a bit more tolerant and reliable. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Not sure why it has taken me so long to reply to this...but here we go: I have successfully converted 2.25, 2.5TD and 300 TDi engines to run on neat veg oil. I have also transesterified vegetable oil into biodiesel and run this in a 300TDi. In the short term, you will not break a 200TDi by throwing oil in the tank. The injection pump (rotary bosch type) has proven to be very reliable on vegetable oil, even when cold. This is unlike the lucas injection pump fitted to everything pre tdi - these are fragile and WILL fail on veg if unheated (I've seen this first hand...in short, the rotor head siezed up due to lack of sufficient lubrication and then shears the drive shaft off) - This is where the stories of "Ive got a mate who put veg in his tank and blew up his engine" come from. For a 200TDi long term, you will need a twin tank system - this starts and stops on diesel allowing the engine to warm up before switching over to veg. This isn't to protect the injection pump by heating the veg (no heat exchanger necessary on a TDi), but to ensure a good combustion within the engine, reducing any veg that might coke up the piston rings, and make it into the engine oil resulting in polymerisation and eventual engine destruction. (TBH, if you change your engine oil anywhere near as much as you are supposed to on a TDi you will probably avoid this fate, but you still may end up with a piston ring problem) This is an excellent forum (but then I would say that...i'm the admin) for good, non snake oil discussion and information on veggy and biodiesel, including the legal bits as well : Goatindustries forum In particular, have a read of this post: How to run your land rover on vegetable oil and this one: Direct injection engines and vegetable oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddel Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 very interesting stuff, James now, I was thinking of running my 300tdi on diesel + lpg. Do you know if anyone has ever tried veg oil + lpg? That would be the most ideal combo, given it would work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiagoc Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 In particular, have a read of this post: How to run your land rover on vegetable oil I had allready read that, and additional good info, on your site, and i'm very interested in the conversion of a SIII 2.25D with a Lucas CAV pump (while i don't convert to 200Tdi ). i still have to research more and know exactly what is the best way and what is needed (just replace the Lucas CAV pump for a Bosch and use a single tank? keep the present Lucas pump and use a dual tank system? always keepping the veg oil + diesel mix warm enough, with heat exchangers and heated filter, of course). i'll read your forum and try to find these answers i have some space available too, so i may be able to "build" a filtering system to use waste veg oil, instead of clean veg oil here in portugal, where the weather is warmer than in the uk, there are some 200Tdi owners who are using a 50%+50% (clean veg oil + diesel) mix, in the summer, without problems so far. they're using only one single tank and a heat exchanger. in the winter, they drop it to something around 25%+75% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Smith Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I have been running 60% used oil with 40% diesel for some time now, I have both water-fuel heat exchanger and a glowplug type one to speed things up. It runs fine but smokes a bit on startup, seems to smoke less once running though. I think a less oily mix may be needed in colder weather though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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