Bull Bar Cowboy Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 Will it’s a long story, but the James and the locals have now named the bog after me …......... bless them It was almost bonnet depth …… one punch on the way in……….one the offside edge…………. and one on the exit………….. trouble is, it was a foot of water and the best part of 3 foot of silt and other debris ……………….. the engine turns at about 2K rpm to run the winch up to full speed ………………….The fan belts picked up some of the debris and the rest is history………… it also split the crank pulley in the bottom of the V for about half of the circumference …………… IIRC, Jase (Ciderman) also lost the belt on his oil burner in the same swamp which slowed his progress for an hour or so …….But Jase & Lardy both spent time at the end of the day pulling me out ………… top guy’s…… I’m saying nuffink about the marshal………….. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 a bit OT (sorry) but i think the stone was somewhere in here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 Progress update ………….. I was hoping the have the engine in today, but unfortunately one of the clutch slave cylinder to bell housing bolts pulled its thread , so that will need to be helicoiled........ and sods law says that I didn’t have any 8mm inserts to hand……. So, here it is waiting on the workshop floor …………. All the inlets have been ragged to stop any sh!t getting in there…….. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br00n1e Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 you must have the patience of a saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Dem rocker look well wicked Ian. As I sed on de pone Wiv dem on, and cos yer truck iz blue u should go da holehog mate and fit a set o these - sorted an it wil match yer motar http://www.quadconversions.com/led_under_car_lighting1.htm Nige B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 Pi$$ taking gits ……………. Here are some more pics of the top end ……………the plenum has been stripped and is in surprisingly good nick with next to no play on the throttle spindle ……….. that will save some time as I was prepared to turn up a phosphor bronze bush for it. The mounting surface needed to be trued (plate glass / wet n dry method) but that only took about 30 minutes. A quick coat of paint and its ready to roll………. This is what is looks like just balanced on top of the engine…….. Today involved spending more money …………. The old inlet hoses were convoluted flexy hoses, which is not good for air flow as it make the air very turbulent. This will be replaced with Samco silicon hose and 70mm bore Aluminum tube. I guess I am in for some more pi$$ taking now……………… Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divster Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Ian, What/ how did you paint the rocker covers and plenum with? (Not P*** taking, geniunely interested ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 Ian,What/ how did you paint the rocker covers and plenum with? (Not P*** taking, geniunely interested ) The Rocker covers are painted with something that has a nick name of BMW Black Chrome …………… but its trade name is sparking glass,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is used on BMW & Audi wheels . The paint is a chromaflare …….. it looks like aluminum / chrome when viewed direct on ………… but looks black when viewed from the side. Oh .... and its F'kin expensive (think in terms of hundreds per litre) , unless of course, you know somebody who has some left over from a job This is the process, Rub down, Etch primer, rub down, etch primer, black base coat, (wet on wet), rub down, black base coat, rub down, black base coat, rub down, sparkling glass top coat, sparkling glass top coat, follow this with 3 coats of lacquer ……… oven bake between coats………….result ………. Otherwise known as BMW Black Chrome ………………. The plenum is done with something known as engine bay paint and it has been mixed with some stuff ( another painters trick) to give it a little shine, almost like a bright satin ………. The process for the plenum is a little different as this stuff does not like etch primer too much and prefers to go straight onto metal. First the casting detail on the top is sanded to make it as flat and shiny as possible. Then the plenum is cleaned with neat thinners. The paint is then applied, and while its wet, the casting detail is picked out by wiping off the paint with a rag soaked in neat thinners ……….. you need a very steady hand to do this……… Most of the credit must go to my son who is a vehicle painter………..... he has also done demonstration painting for both PPG and Sikkins………..all I had to do was the cleaning of the covers and plenum…………………… Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted July 26, 2007 Author Share Posted July 26, 2007 Just a small update........ When you are in this far, you just know that its not going well The bell housing had to be removed to helicoil the slave cylinder threads ...................however, the engine is now in its home............ no pics as it was a bit late last night. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 I thought maybe its a good time to look at the dizzy………..timing and dizzy’s often crop up on here as questions. This tells you all about the dizzy………….born in April 87 ………… it is a 35DLM8 model and is type 42649A (of the 35DLM8 series) and the direction of travel is clockwise. If you ever manage to lay your hands on the Lucas book of words then the 42649A number is very important as this defines the springs and base plate post. A major problem with this dizzy, and common to many other is this range is wear on the oil pump drive ………..the pin has worn and the hole is elongated. Eventually the drive pin will shear or the bottom of the gear will break away BTW: increasing the oil pressure on these engines accelerates this wear considerably. Another big problem with these dizzy’s is seizing of the mechanism ……….. due mainly to the design with does not allow lubrication of the bob weights. A good test is to move the rotor arm clockwise by about 10 degrees and ensure that it snaps smartly backwards under spring tension. The only real adjustment is the reluctor air gap ………… the air gat between the hall effect sensor and the reluctor ring ………….. quite important for good reliable operation. Remove the plastic top cover. Stripping these dizzy’s is quite easy…………… Remove the side ign amp module Remove the vacuum unit and unhook from the base plate. Remover the 3 outer post screws and lift off the base plate……… careful prising the module connector free. Remove the reluctor circlip and pull off the reluctor together with the plastic seal and metal washers Pull off the plastic reluctor drive collar. At this point if the dizzy is in a bad way you will see the weight mechanism is full of rust. Using a pin punch, drive out the dizzy drive gear roll pin. Remove the gear and the thrust washer Invert the dizzy body and carefully drive to main shaft from the dizzy ………… it should pull out, but poor design means the top bearing gets no lube so the central section of the shaft will be full of crud. Now you should have a pile of bits that resemble this………….. Many times on here we get questions about timing ……….. what should my static timing be (or dynamic at tickover)……………….this is where you find this information. Stamped on the advance stop just above the weights will be a number …………. This is max mechanical advance of the dizzy ………….this one is stamped 14 For the Rover V8 engines the max design advance is 28 degrees (although you can get away with up to 34 degrees)…………. so…………. 28 – (14 x 2) = 0 ……………. This engine will be timed at TDC. On the A series race engines (before we had ECU’s) we would modify the advance curve by changing the springs and the total advance ……… file a little off the stop for more ……… weld a small blob on the stop for less ………….. To remove the weights ……… Carefully disconnect the springs ……………. They are of different tensions (to give progressive advance) . Support the advance shaft and carefully punch the top of the mainshaft with a pin punch to release the small plastic clip collar. Pull apart the shafts to taking care not to lose the small collar that guides the weights. If you are rebuilding then clean everything up and reassemble using moly grease on everything except the lower shaft bearing. Just like the Haynes manual ………. reassembly is just the reverse procedure of disassembly. As I am running EDIS, this dizzy will now be modified just to drive the oil pump………………. The body will get some lathe treatment tonight…….. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 The moment of truth is now quite close .................................. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 Its time to modify the dizzy ………..as I am running EDIS I just need to drive the oil pump The body is mounted in the lathe and the top section parted off Which leaves you with this…. Then turn down the rim until its flush with the bearing body…. Then using parting tool cut a couple of ‘O’ ring groves…….. Doing this way has left the steel thrust plate intact (it is peened into the casting). However, this is just a nice to have as most of the thrust is in the upward direction…. Now take the centre shaft which looks like so…….. Saw off the spring posts and base plate support shaft. Then machine it true, leaving the nylon bearing in place…..also polish the carp from the shaft ….. Slide the shaft into the housing, making sure to fit the lower thrust washer and then replace the gear and roll pin……. I will eventually turn up a cap from a piece of Ali bar stock with a nice polished finish, but as I need this on the engine tonight , a plastic cap from a car polish bottle is a nice tight fit over the ‘O’ Rings Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 It runs................ B) Started on the button ............... ran for 20 minutes @2000 - 2500 rpm ................ oil pressure 80 psi cold ............... 50 psi hot @2000rpm ...........30 psi hot @tickover ...................... I think that is a result ................... now to change the oil...... Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Now that's what a distributor should look like I must find an old one to do similar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 2, 2007 Share Posted August 2, 2007 Congrats Ian, Its nice when a project like this finishes, The enthusiasm of starting soon deminishes, and then you begin to wonder just when if ever you'll get there, but you have .......and a fab job too Looking forwards to the RR report. Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Hello BBc is Boothy again, just to let you know when I fitted the rear crank oil seal it was already on the crank before fitting to avoid any damage. I had the good fortune this week of the use of Saleys (thanks again John) four poster ramp to remove the box to have a look at this rear seal which I presumed had failed, I decided it would be easier to go in from the rear 50/50 really, anyway thats the way I went. In the process of removing the bell housing cover plate, CLUNK!!!! on the floor fell this piece of alluminium all chewed up the size of a little egg, couple of hours later when the box was out it was revealed what it was, it was the rear camshaft alluminium core plug, work that one out. have replaced it checked again for end float of the Piper RP4 cam and the competition cam shaft gear and chain, which does not require shimming. So lost me that one. Anyway refitted a new one with a coating of blue hylomar and hopefully it won't re-occur. I was torn with Hylomar or gloss paint was another suggestion from an engine builder but i was concerned if any got into the oilway or the rear cam bearing. The original problem was a steady dripping of oil out of the wading plug apperture but no loss of pressure of anything to cause concern with the exception of the drip. Good luck and I hope it works well for you. Boothy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted August 3, 2007 Author Share Posted August 3, 2007 That plug has been known to fall out ……………….. The best stuff to seal it into place would have been “Loctite bearing fit” The usual cause is that it may have been taken out during a block cleanup and then not quite seated correctly when it was replaced. Often, when an RV8 is rebuilt it is good policy to change the 2 waterway core plugs on the rear of the block ………… often the cam plug gets changed as well (although there is no need). Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted August 11, 2007 Author Share Posted August 11, 2007 Just an annoying little update…………… How does the saying go………….. Houston …………….I think we have a problem…………. OK ……….. the engine has now done 100 miles and certainly the torque and BHP is definitely there in large doses even though the rpm has been kept to 3K or below……… But……………. At 50 miles I started to notice that the expansion tank was smelling of induction & exhaust gas ……………..at 75 miles I noticed a cold misfire on one cylinder……….at 100 miles I noticed a large amount of white grey smoke on a warm start and the coolant system was pressurising ………..I guess you know the rest……… Tonight was diagnosis time ……….. pulling the plugs revealed that no1 was cleaner than the rest ………bad news ……….however, a compression test ……… and this dry test on a hot engine was most satisfying ………..I expected worse than this as it has only done a 100 careful miles…………. 1 = 200 3 = 205 5 = 205 7 = 205 2 = 200 4 = 200 6 = 205 8 = 195 Just to confirm my suspicions a 5 minute engine run was done with No1 plug removed …….. and no pressurisation was noticed ………… then I fitted an old dirty plug into No1 and gave the engine a 2 minute run ………. Hey ho the plug was wet and it wasn’t fuel. The dirty plug trick is simple ………. a wet clean plug is hard to see…….. but wet on a sooty plug really stands out. Coolant temperature was never an issue ............... this system holds 17 litres ! I am fairly sure that this block is cracked behind No1 pot ………… so it will be a strip down and the block will be top hat linered …………disappointing and annoying but not the end of the world ………. A very big thanks to Nige (HFH) for his help an support on the phone and listening to my whinging ! It has to be remembered that this engine had an unknown history ……….. during the rebuild I looked carefully for signs of liner movement or coolant to bore to coolant transfer and could detect nothing obvious ………….. even Andy at the machine shop had a good look and he also thought it to be OK ……………..this is one of the most difficult engine faults to diagnose easily ……… I guess this will put me behind by about a month………….. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 It is a shame that something like a liner issue has came to bite you. Considering that you've obvious spent so much time and effort to go to these lengths, i'm a little unsure why you didn't go to the bother of getting top-hat liners fitted to the block from the outset??? The liners are a known issue . . . you admit yourself you even tried to look for it being present . . . plus you were looking to moderately push the engine performance ... to me it just seems that it should have been a must-have from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 that's carp- who will you get to do the machining? do you know anyone local? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 Well, working on the theory that it happens to some and not others, I foolishly took a calculated risk. Proper pressure testing of the block is not cheap and if I had gone down that route then it would have cheaper in the long run to have just had the block liners fitted. This also adds significant cost to the build ……………. And if the block was OK then it would have been a bit like paying an insurance policy. I my own mind I was prepared for this outcome and like I have already said it’s not the end of the world ………………. the engine is now out and in the next day or two will be stripped ready for the block to be repaired. I guess you are right in many ways, but there are many, many engines out there running big HP that are still on standard blocks ……………… even many of the strokers are still running standard blocks………….. At least, once the liners have been fitted, the problem will be banished forever, however, I would have preferred a X bolted block to invest this sort of money into. It is interesting to note that the later X bolt blocks have more meat in the casting area around the liners and do not seem to suffer from this problem. With the help of Nige I have now located an engineering shop that will undertake this work at reasonable cost and will also finish the bores to match my pistons …….. to be honest the guy gave me great confidence by asking all the right questions………I think somebody may have warned them that I’m a fussy bar steward. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 It is interesting to note that the later X bolt blocks have more meat in the casting area around the liners and do not seem to suffer from this problem. even crossbolters go porous- my last 4.6 did and it was 92 casting i think- definteily a cross bolter anway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 even crossbolters go porous- my last 4.6 did and it was 92 casting i think- definteily a cross bolter anway! As in 1992? Didnt realise they made crossbolted RV8s that early Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Have to agree with Fisha here. Insurance is good to have when you need it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 typo- 95 not 92- i hope it's gone on to bigger and better things now- wish i hadn't sold it after having had it top hatted- and thank you Mr Walford i did haev a working land rover once! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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