Whats the BHP

[dollythelw]

burette and level glass it Lara?

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Isn't it a better idea at this stage to remove a head and calculate the CR properly?

Shame to mess up a good rebuild at this stage for 30 minutes work.

Lara.

Its something that I always did on race engines, as it was particularly important to ensure that all the cylinders were matched.

However, on this build the actual CR is relatively unimportant as long as its above 9.5 ish and below 11 (RV8's get very touchy over 11.5:1).

Ideally I would have done the CR calcs when I was checking and correcting the piston deck heights...................... but this engine will probably never see more than 4.5K rpm in its off road application...........

Ian

[Lara]

burette and level glass it Lara?

Yep!

Not knocking this rebuild in any way as it looks good but it's always good to know the exact CR even if it's just to settle your mind if you have future problems etc.

I have made some monumental cockups in the past just guessing CRs and they cost me several sets of pistons once

Never again will I fall down on that one

Lara.

[HoSS]

I'd be interested in the proceedure to do this, if anyone would like to write it up...

EDIT - ok it seems that can be found easily - i.e. measuring CR

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Before shimming the rocker posts a few fundamental checks need to be made.

A straight edge across the valve stems to ensure nothing is amiss. Here I am looking for ideally less then 10thou variation ……………….. valve number 7 is the worst at 8 thou………..if there is any more than 25 thou difference then shims will not set the preload correctly on all 8.

Then we need to do the same with the rocker posts…………

I am looking for these to be within a couple of thou …………post number 3 is 2 thou low, so that all checks out OK

Time to fit the shims ………… they come as a set . 8 x 16 thou, 8 x 32 thou and 8 x 48 thou….

With the shims in, the preload checks out OK ………… and look somewhat better

The next stage will be to rebuild and the oil pump cover …………

Ian

[Fatboy]

Ian,

Absolutely stonking thread that is much appreciated.... I've built two V8's so far and learnt loads doing it but had many areas where I wasn't quite sure (Oil pump cover & valves etc) so this is very useful as I'm gathering bits to build another and want to put a bit more effort into it.

Its like a good book, but only being given a chapter at a time...

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Last item on the agenda is the oil pump. The housing is built into the timing cover and gives very little in the way of problems. However, the oil pump cover is a different story.

The pump gears should be discarded and replaced. An important and often over looked measurement is the gear to cover. This is fixed by the thickness of the gears and the thickness of the oil pump cover gasket. However, an often overlooked variable here is wear on the pump cover from the gears ………. The less frequent the oil changes, then the more wear there will be.

This cover is quite good ………… I have seen a lot worse ……… note the scoring marks from suspended oil particles.

The fix is easy …………… first a piece of plate glass. Then we check the glass for ‘flatness’ using a straight edge and a feeler in four directions

The glass is then covered with a sheet of 400 grit wet n dry ……….. lubed with paraffin and this makes a good cutting oil for aluminium

The cover is then ‘surfaced’ on the glass using a figure of eight motion. Ideally even pressure is placed on the cover to ensure a perfectly flat finish. After a while we end up with the desired result ……………….. 99% of the marks have been ‘machined’ out and we have a perfectly flat finish. This technique does require a little practise to perfect.

Here is a comparison between my finished cover and another old cover in the workshop

The other area of great concern is the oil pressure relief valve. The sealing of the valve is the land in the end of the bore and the flat face of the valve. This seal is of no issue and works well.

The issue come from scoring in the bore. The edges of the score marks are proud and without removing the raised edges of these marks a new valve will stick as the engine gets hot and the aluminium expands more than the steel valve. Remember the 4x4 is born ……….. those clowns paid little attention to this area and on its first trail run they lost all oil pressure as the valve stuck open !

Mr Dremel comes in useful here together with a polishing wand. This is what is needed to clean up the bore ………… first the autosol, then maybe a little T cut ……….. and a final polish with Mer.

The area of concern is the oil return gallery off the bore ……… I have tried to show the scoring ………. Its not east to photograph but it is to the left of the bore division in this picture.

Set up the dremel so as not to access the land at the end of the bore ……… leave well alone.

Once cleaned up and thoroughly degreased …………. Flood oil the bore and valve piston. It should be a nice sliding fit with no ‘hard spots’ . Once in, and sharp tap of the pump cover on your hand should release the valve.

BTW: There is nothing special about the oil pump fixing machine screws ……… they are UNC thread and have an imperial 12 point head ……… the correct tool is a 5/16 AF crank ring spanner. The pump should be fitted with a dry gasket and the fixing bolts tightened to the correct torque ……… not F***king murder tight.

I will not be filling the pump with Vasoline ……….. I will just oil the gears with build lube ………….. just before I fire up the engine I will manually prime the pump with and electric drill to give me some pre start oil pressure.

As a matter of interest and contrary to what some others have posted on here ……… the three ports in the cover are all connected together and certainly the two lowest in the picture are ½ UHF ……… so no need for bloody great T pieces hanging off the pump …….. just screw the oil pressure switch into one port and the oil pressure sensor into the other. The upper most port is threaded differently and I cant remember what it is right now …….but its nothing out of the ordinary

Ian

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

The running in regime will be…….. first fill the engine with a lesser quality 20-50 mineral oil.

1) Prime oil pump

2) Start engine and run up to 1500 rpm as the lifters prime.

3) Run engine for 20 minutes at 2000 – 2500 rpm to break in the cam

4) Change the oil

5) Refill with a lesser quality 20 -50 and run for 500 miles

6) At 500 miles fill with normal running oil (Magnatec 15 – 40 ) and run to 1500

7) oil change at 1500

8) oil change at 3K ………… and every 3K there after

Well guys …….. this just about completes the build ……….. the rest is just nuts and bolts…..

Of all the LR type jobs, engine building is something I really enjoy …………….. I hope you guys have enjoyed this build as must as I have.

Ian

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I got that wrong then - my running in regime was:

- Fill engine with oil

- Drive 2000 miles to Russia and then back again

I really must do an oil change at some point

Yes, thanks for that.

I was sitting outside one night with a glass of wine trying to think when you were going to Lagoda, and how the new engine I'd put together "Against the clock" was - in respect to a 'shake down' test drive, and hoping all was "OK"

The text on my phone saying "All seems OK - at Signing on" made my eyes pop out on stalks and SWMBO heard me say '****' as I stared at the text message

And yes change the oil and filter FFS-FF ..........PLEASE

Loverley job Ian, Oil choice has me intruiged, John E has always said best oil for a V8 is 20/50 non syn not heard of the stuff you are using - seems thinner than 20/50 ?

Whats the info on this then ?...and not good simple non synthetic 20/50 ?

Nige

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Oil choice has me intruiged, John E has always said best oil for a V8 is 20/50 non syn not heard of the stuff you are using - seems thinner than 20/50 ?

Whats the info on this then ?...and not good simple non synthetic 20/50 ?

Nige

I guess this post should start with ……………. Where’s Rick the Oz when you need him ! ………. That guy is an oil encyclopaedia ……..

Oil choice is quite difficult as none of the old established ‘names’ make a straight 20w – 50.

Yes, there are plenty of supposedly 20w – 50 oils out there that are £5 a gallon and a supplier that I have never heard of ! …………. I usually refer to these as lesser quality oils.

This engine is 1990, so its 17 years old ………….. but also the engine is a 50 year old design, however, for now we can say that the engine machining tolerances are a 20 year old design.

Over the last few years, oil technology has come on a long way ………. 20 / 25 years ago the only synthetic of note was Mobil 1 ……….. expensive and totally unsuitable for this application …………..

Today we have several oils from leading manufacturers to consider ……… the likes of Castrol, Mobil, Fuchs (including silkolene) …………. Redline is also available, but only from specialist outlets and the UK range is limited.

My last build was in 2002 and I spent a long while investigating and deciding which oil would be best suited to the application ………….

After several phone calls to the leading oil company tech departments, I found Castrol UK to be the most interested and very forthcoming with information. I remember the guy was interested in the application , projected oil temp……… talked about long periods of slow running etc.………. the guy also took time to look up detail on the RV8 and commented about cam wear etc …….Castrol recommended Magnatec 15W – 40, which is a semi synthetic. Castrol even went to the trouble of sending me 8 litres to try ………

The Castrol info……….

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/multiplepro...ntentId=7007905

The Fuchs info ………… ignore the prices, you can buy Titan Universal form German, Swedish & French at less than a third of these prices……..

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/performance_lubricants/fuchs.aspx

The silkolene info ……….. nothing suitable, but just look ath those prices !

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/performance_lubr.../silkolene.aspx

Mobil seem to major on high end race oil applications…..

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/performance_lubricants/mobil.aspx

Lastly Redline …………. Limited product availability in the UK

http://www.redlineoil-europe.com/info/dealers.asp

Ian

[nicks90]

Oil choice has me intruiged, John E has always said best oil for a V8 is 20/50 non syn not heard of the stuff you are using - seems thinner than 20/50 ?

Whats the info on this then ?...and not good simple non synthetic 20/50 ?

Nige

RV8 being an old design, tend to run on the basis of low pressure - high volume for lubrication. Thats mainly cos of the quite large tolerances designed into the engine to make it simple and cheap to produce 'back in the old days'. Hence a fairly thick oil is recommended to keep the pressure up. Once that engine gets a bit worn, it will definitely be suffering low oil pressure - therefore a good gloopy oil is required to keep the thing from siezing,

For something like Ians engine ie. put together properly with fine tolerances and no worn out parts and a good dollop of care + attention - 15/40 is fine.

btw, 15/40 semi synth is a good choice for diesels - so your engine is halfway there

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

btw, 15/40 semi synth is a good choice for diesels - so your engine is halfway there

You are at risk of never making your 4th post

Nige

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Well…………… I have provisionally set the rolling road date for 6 weeks time ……ideally when the motor has done 1500 – 2000 miles.

Alan, that runs the dyno is more than keen to play with an MS /EDIS engine ……… his only concern is that having already played with comp safari motors, the large aggressive tread tyres can sometimes give strange results on the roller with regard to power at the wheels …… but he is more than happy to stand by any power at the flywheel figures……

As promised……… whatever the results are, I will post the graphs …………

I will going here ……although Alan has been there for 25 years with rollers the very latest dyno is a new addition.. http://www.enginetuner.co.uk/tuning.htm

Ian

[HoSS]

As a matter of interest and contrary to what some others have posted on here ……… the three ports in the cover are all connected together and certainly the two lowest in the picture are ½ UHF ………

Did you mean UNF ? Or is this motor being fitted to a radio truck?

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Did you mean UNF ? Or is this motor being fitted to a radio truck?

Actually very applicable ………… I work on everything from DC to daylight …………….. but yes, I meant to write UNF

Ian

[q-rover]

http://www.enginetuner.co.uk/tuning.htm

Ian

I thought some of those photos (background) looked familiar. He´s the guy that did

the tuning and head work on my MGB GT many moons ago when I lived and "worked"

in Plymouth.

HAHA

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Ian a few questions.

How did u decide & control how much to take out of the ports? I am a little scared of going too far & breaking into an ajacent oil way or something.

Hoss,

I stayed quiet on this question and was going to answer once the dyno tests were done ……… porting is just so easy to get wrong ……….. been there, seen the video and had the T shirt . Yank engines in particular have there own peculiarities with valve shrouding etc ………… but to save me a whole load of typing, this is one of the best articles I have ever read on the subject and certainly confirms my findings over the years ………….the only bit I disagree with is the words around the manifold porting ……….. with EFI the manifold intake forms a major part of the port.

I would have liked to have opened the combustion chambers a little more, but this is fraught with difficulties (again, been there etc,etc,)………. It is best done with a mill, and serious consideration has to be given to the new chamber size. This usually results in custom pistons to get the CR correct .

This will explain better why I opened up the valve throats just behind the seats ………. Something I learnt many years ago with BLMC A series engines…………

If you are a serious engine builder then this mag is one of the best …………

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemas...cylinder_heads/

Ian

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

There is maybe a couple of odd details to add.

The RV8 is renowned for the TDC mark nor matching up with TDC on No 1 Piston. My old 3.5 was 6 degrees out………..this can be taken out with MS software when running EDIS ………. that is not the answer, it should be mechanically corrected. The problem usually is due to the damper or the pointer …….. often it’s the pointer ….

The only real way to check this is to set up a dial gauge on No1 piston to accurately determine TDC……….

I’m happy to say that this one is perfect ………….after I adjusted the pointer

Ian

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Getting there slowly.............

A new bracket was fabbed for the VR sensor (EDIS) as the old bracket had some adjustment issues …….. MkII is always better…………… just needs a good coat of paint now……

The engine is almost finished …………. Not every thing goes like clockwork, just after this pic was taken I suddenly realised that I had not fitted the valley seals …………. So it was stripped down smartish and the seals correctly placed. The manifold only just fits.

Ian

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

This is what caused the engine build …………. the aftermath of the swamp, a stone has punctured the timing case just above the crank ……….. not good when you are bonnet deep in water and silt………

Ian

[istruggle2gate11]

This has my vote for the best post on the forum, dont forget the video (with soundtrack) when she runs mate.

As a side note, Im running the same VR sensor (1300cc fiesta etc), and i wish Id gone for one of the smaller types (1600cc orion, sierra etc), as these longer ones have a hole in the end, and sometimes when first entering the water during wading at vr sensor depth, the MS will reset and cut out the engine if only ticking over. Once its been upset, it will happily run underwater for as long as you have fuel, its almost as if its been "shocked" by the cold water? Although I have not yet tried a dab of silicone in the hole.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Whilst waiting for some help to come around to lift the engine from the bench, I busied myself with getting other stuff ready.

The injectors & fuel rail …………..

When I collected this engine it had been stood for a long time ……….. also kicking around all the other junk (about another 15 engines of which a few were early RV8’s) was a few RV8 inlet manifolds ……… a couple looked interesting , so were loaded onto the engine …….

So out of the pile of junk I now have 15 injectors ……….

A close visual inspection, quickly determines that some will be dustbin fodder….

However, this sort of damage is superficial and these can be cleaned up…..

So after the visual I end up with 12 that may be good, 3 junk and a pile of scrap O rings

Next I test all the 12 injectors for the correct coil resistance ……… here I am looking for about 16 to 16.5 ohms……..

Now the interesting bit ……… I connect a piece of tube to the injector inlet and with ensure that I cannot blow through it with the injector closed. Then I connect up a 12volt source to the injector and ensure that I can here the solenoid click …….. once opened with the 12volts then blow through the tube………… this will clear any old petrol in there (so be careful) and also give a little indication of how gummed they are. I am looking for just a clean blow through ( oow …..er) without any noise of residual fuel in the injector.

After this test I am now left with nine usable injectors ………..

Each injector is cleaned with brake cleaner and fitted with new O rings ……….. to insert each injector into the fuel rail, smear the O ring with vaseline …….

Right, we now have a cleaned fuel rail with known working injectors ready for fitting……….

Ian

[Boothy]

Fantastic thread BBC but I hope your have more luck than my big V8 after I finally got the engine run in nicely, chuffed to bits with output etc, then with its usual 60psi oil pressure blew back seal so it drips continuosly through the wading plug hole when its running now, so its all undone and ready to come again, b*****d.

My local car accessory/parts supplier gets me the original green Duckhams Q classic 20/50, so there is still good 20/50 around and its not old stock its still made, pukka stuff.

Good luck and keep away from these boosted chip fat burners and keep a heart in your motor, be British be proud of a misfire.

Booto 101 out.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Seeing Boothy’s post reminded me that I have not shown the rear crank oil seal..........

These leak with monotonous regularity…………..usually because they were damaged when fitted ………. ……….. this is the crank

first the housing needs to de degreased …….. seals have been known to pop out against the flywheel

Fitting like this is what causes the lip damage …….. that just isn’t going to work

LR use a sleeve tool for fitting ………. In the workshop I have a load of sheet shim that I use for this, but none of it is long enough to go around the crank which is 3 inches diameter. So, use some thin card and seal with plastic tape …………make it funnel shaped towards the end. Make sure the card overlap is only about half inch

put some Vaseline on the tape and the inside lip of the seal……and slide the seal on

tap the seal in about halfway ……

Then with a slight anticlockwise motion, twist the card sleeve free…………and the seal should be nicely on the crank

Now tap fully home using your favourite brass drift or a lump of wood

Easy innit ………………………….

Ian

[will_warne]

Looks very nice, Ian.

Any idea how the stone actually got anywhere near the timing case?