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Unbreakable CVs, not!


roguevogue

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:rolleyes:

I run el cheapo RRC ABS CV's now which I think are the weakest of the weak but I will beff the old girl up when I have some more cash.

I commented on the fact that nothing is unbreakable (film) :P

My Disco 2 CV have done 150,000miles with me wheel spinning out of juctions and 100mph every day up and down the M3 and all sorts but as you say still not a mark on the CV and look like new.

My 90 broke two front shafts and never blow a CV in the ten years I owned it even after challengeing I would thing nothing of nailing it with the front locker in and turning lock to lock but every time in the back of my mind I know the over laod protectors would not always work and the CV's could break but thats competing.

but everything needs maintanace everything will eventualy wear and everything will break eventualy

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Well spotted Nick………. Its really good to see that you have taken the time and effort to understand ‘why’ …………a fundamental question that is not often addressed by the average user ………..

I guess the biggest issue I have with all this axle stuff is the urban myth, smoke & mirrors, and buckets load of meaning less opinionated wind from the types of folk that wouldn’t even know how to engineer themselves out of a paperbag :angry: ……………damn, where’s that button :lol: ………………. This is not a blanket statement….. and I’m not pointing the finger……………….there are those on here for instance that are able to back up their words with good solid foundation evidence…….. but for those about to get upset ………… if the f***king cap fits, then wear it…….. :ph34r:

Hey lets get back on topic ................

Well, with your problem in mind, I guess that’s why 30 spline Chromoly Longfields are available that replace the birfields ……………… the info would seem to suggest you wont bust these in a hurry ……how deep are your pockets ?

Quote………………

"The new longfield is made of 4340 chromoly. The balls are smaller which allows us to have thicker bell and cages. The inner race is a completely new and different design, made from 300M material and it is longer for added strength…………."

gallery_269_31_75766.jpg

:)

Ian

Ian, you quite clearly are pointing the finger but I really don't give a damn! You obviously have some personal problem with me but I've no interest into turning this into a slagging match. If you don't like what I have to say you simply don't have to read it.

Longfields aren't as expensive as you'd imagine. They may well be cheaper than brand new genuine Toyota CVs. Before Ashcroft CVs were available I spoke to a company in the US about manufacturing an uprated Land Rover CV. In the end I didn't follow it up as the cost was going to be extortionate even for reasonably large batches.

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Ian, you quite clearly are pointing the finger but I really don't give a damn! You obviously have some personal problem with me but I've no interest into turning this into a slagging match. If you don't like what I have to say you simply don't have to read it.

Will,

I see you have taken ownership of the cap …………….. The button reference is not particularly aimed in your direction………. I see it as a joviality icon that has a subtle meaning ………………. In no way a personal attack …… did I construct the button ?………….. it’s a ‘To whom it may concern’ message with a hidden meaning and generally those that it will apply to, will take the bait ………. hook line and sinker .

If my written verbal attack was directed against you………… then I can assure you that you would be under no false illusions in respect of my parentage and the hand of friendship offered ;) …………..currently the door is still open :)

Generally it is good practise to profile your opponent in a verbal attack……… this is done to expose areas of weakness in order that the frailty of human nature can be exploited to maximise impact with the minimum of effort ……..if you need to know more about me then speak with young Moglite :rolleyes:

If you think the cap fits ………..then by all means you are most welcome to wear it ……… :rolleyes:

Now, I don’t want this thread to degenerate, as this is most unfair to Nick ………… so back on topic please……….

:)

Ian

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Will,

I see you have taken ownership of the cap …………….. The button reference is not particularly aimed in your direction………. I see it as a joviality icon that has a subtle meaning ………………. In no way a personal attack …… did I construct the button ?………….. it’s a ‘To whom it may concern’ message with a hidden meaning and generally those that it will apply to, will take the bait ………. hook line and sinker .

If my written verbal attack was directed against you………… then I can assure you that you would be under no false illusions in respect of my parentage and the hand of friendship offered ;) …………..currently the door is still open :)

Generally it is good practise to profile your opponent in a verbal attack……… this is done to expose areas of weakness in order that the frailty of human nature can be exploited to maximise impact with the minimum of effort ……..if you need to know more about me then speak with young Moglite :rolleyes:

If you think the cap fits ………..then by all means you are most welcome to wear it ……… :rolleyes:

Now, I don’t want this thread to degenerate, as this is most unfair to Nick ………… so back on topic please……….

:)

Ian

Ian, I clearly read too much into your comment. I know at times I can come across as an insufferable know it all not helped by my personal circumstances that have meant over the last year or so I've been unable to put any of my "ideas" into action.

As you say, back on topic.

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Will, I think it is unfair of yourself to use the word insufferable, you are far, far from that. In fact I would honestly say that you are a very pleasant, very genuine, earnest young man. You are also massive value for money and very entertaining. Very few of your posts fail to make me smile even on the sh*ttiest of days - this forum would be a poorer place without you.

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Very few of your posts fail to make me smile even on the sh*ttiest of days - this forum would be a poorer place without you.

Here Here! (or is it Hear Hear?)

Ian - leave the poor boy alone! ;)

Si

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Very poor band that won a singing competition (pop stars) then Jules :lol:

fact is fact the rest is as above without pics/evidence.

I've had Ashcroft CV's in since oct 2005 and they have been used plenty in numerous events at different sites covering approx 20k miles road and offroad

towed a caravan over 1200miles. and not a mark on them.

the cheapness of the Toy ones won't be so apparent when a replacement CVs are sourced.

yeah yeah tony and i had a standard set of land Rover CV's in my challenge 90. Never replaced them and were the same ones when i bought it and the same ones when i sold it. And that truck loads of events , play days and the such. And no one could say that i gave that truck an easy life as i am a ruff Ar*e :D

So your experiance can not be taken as gospel. They are very good cv's i give you that But like Maxi drive shafts they will break as will everything and it is nothing against them if they do

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You also had GKN overload hubs .

what I'm typing is fact in my experience nothing to do with gospel

there area fair few others running just the same as me and doing well with the setup

just look at the placings in the events run here and you'll see Ashcrofts CV's shafts in most of the top places.

At the MWWC there were far fewer people replacing CVs to the previous events I've attended at Slindon.

Nicks experience is the first on here having fitted Toys and having had them fail. but he is fortunate in being able to carry out top class fabrication work himself.

As for Jules experience/story it may well b fact but pics/actual experience would be nice to see

I'm not trying to say they or anything is unbreakable but they are a vast step forwards

to what has been available for Rover axles before they appeared.

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You also had GKN overload hubs .

what I'm typing is fact in my experience nothing to do with gospel

there area fair few others running just the same as me and doing well with the setup

just look at the placings in the events run here and you'll see Ashcrofts CV's shafts in most of the top places.

At the MWWC there were far fewer people replacing CVs to the previous events I've attended at Slindon.

Nicks experience is the first on here having fitted Toys and having had them fail. but he is fortunate in being able to carry out top class fabrication work himself.

As for Jules experience/story it may well b fact but pics/actual experience would be nice to see

I'm not trying to say they or anything is unbreakable but they are a vast step forwards

to what has been available for Rover axles before they appeared.

Agree tony but i only had the GKN overload hubs in the last 6months of owning the car

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Anyway.................

Cutting back to the chase.

The price seems to be improving, I started off with the Toyota stealer for a laugh, his first guess, with no real effort to find the true figure was about £400. I thanked him for his time and left.

I asked on Difflock if there was any information about cheap suppliers, meanwhile I phoned my local motorfactor, who chuckled and said we don't sell many of them - £140+.

Milners was the only suggestion on Difflock, they want £80+

Then I found a geezer on eBay shipping them from Oz, $55 each (£22)! plus shipping $65, total £50 give or take. Great, so I emailed him asking how long they would take, the reply within hours, 5-10 days. I returned his email ordering three. Silence for a week now despite contacting through ebay and even texting him.

In the interim I spotted an ad in the local paper for Drive Shaft UK, who phoned me back very quick from their email request form and quoted £79+ delivered.

I am currently on the trail of another supplier but I can't let on just yet, hopefully sub £50.

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...

"The new longfield is made of 4340 chromoly. The balls are smaller which allows us to have thicker bell and cages. The inner race is a completely new and different design, made from 300M material and it is longer for added strength…………."

gallery_269_31_75766.jpg

...

The longfields referred to here are replacements for the small toyota cv. Except for the stub shaft and splines in the star, these cv's are almost the same size as the early rover cv's. With little effort they will fit a rover.

The cv's that rougevouge broke look like 80 series to me (100 series are almost, but not quite, identical). Longfield also make a 4340 and 300M cv for the 80 series (I have these in my rangie).

Ashcroft cv's should perform close to the longfield cv's shown in the graph. They are made from the same materials, but dimensionally different to interchange with rover cv's.

The smaller dia stub shaft won't be as strong as the longfield. The strength of the bell should be close.

The strength of the stars are more difficult to compare, but should not be too far different. The longfield star has a larger spline (stronger half shaft but weaker star), but the star is longer (extends beyond the snap ring on the half shaft), which makes them better on full lock.

Longfield now make cv's that are similar to these but aimed at rovers, but require custom half shafts. If you want these, please contact Michele.

Many 80 series toyotas in Aus, with tyres up to 37" or 38" can give the cv's a real punishment, with occasional failures. I would not panic about the strength of them. But beware the cheap aftermarket replacements.

Before longfield started using 4340 and 300M, the only satisfactory way to improve the strength of cv's was to re-heat treat them. Stock cv's have a high hardness for wear resistance. But the brittleness reduces their impact strength. The re-heat treatment reduces the hardness and improves the impact strength. This has been done to good effect with rover cv's in Aus, but longfield cv's are better now.

The best advise I have read in this thread so far is from Bill. Adjust your steering stops, it will pay dividends.

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That's why I asked the # of splines,I'm not sure but Series 70 Land Cruisers may share the same "minitrucks" (4 Runner) CVs...?so Longfield 27 splines...maybe...

:unsure:

Early 70 series cv's are the same size as the minitrucks. The later 78 series (troopy) and 79 series (tray back) have the larger cv's (same as 80 series).

I don't know about the newly released 70 series (the one with the new v8 diesel). My guess is they are the same as 78 and 79 series, as they are just an update of these to accept the v8 engine (the old 6 cyl can't comply with current emission requirements).

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Early 70 series cv's are the same size as the minitrucks. The later 78 series (troopy) and 79 series (tray back) have the larger cv's (same as 80 series).

I don't know about the newly released 70 series (the one with the new v8 diesel). My guess is they are the same as 78 and 79 series, as they are just an update of these to accept the v8 engine (the old 6 cyl can't comply with current emission requirements).

Don't think alot will know what the new 70 seris is as they did not sell the old one in the Uk. (or as i call it the tryback mine workers truck :D ) So on that basis they will not had have many pictures of it there

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Spot on Ali

Any pics of these said vehicles.

The 70 seris is the oe that you see Steve Irwin always running around in. They are used like Defenders are in the Uk, Ie all farmers, all council workers , construction workers and on the mines

FJ75.ute.jpg

ute.jpg

Toyota Truope

FJ75.TC.jpg

And the new one

FJ78.ute.jpg

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Early 70 series cv's are the same size as the minitrucks. The later 78 series (troopy) and 79 series (tray back) have the larger cv's (same as 80 series).

I don't know about the newly released 70 series (the one with the new v8 diesel). My guess is they are the same as 78 and 79 series, as they are just an update of these to accept the v8 engine (the old 6 cyl can't comply with current emission requirements).

[OT]

Thanks John.

The most common Toyota 70-ish series here is this one (LJ70)

Dossier_LJ70.jpg

but I believe these never came to Oz...

I thought this was Nick's donor truck but that whas an 80 Series.

I'm trying to understand if they share the same CVs (30/24 splines I guess?)

:unsure:

Edited to update:

yes they do!

[END OT]

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Ok just heard of a CV that is in testing at the moment in Oz. For Toyotas but will be done for Landies

They are testing it in Qld at the moment. Made by Thompson Couplings

Ok copied from Aulro

"I was talking to a bloke that works for Thompson Couplings today. I don't know if you blokes are familiar with this product but it is a total re-think of the C.V. joint. "The strenght of a uni with the flexability of a c.v." They are just about to run the first few off the tooling for testing. The first application will be sugar cane trains in QLD.

He told me they did a test where they ran a (pardon the swearing) Toyota cv at full rated load until it failed, 12 minutes, no surprises there! They turned the test of theirs off after several hours.

I don't know how much production there will be or if they will be targeting the 4wd market if they do become available they should be the ducks guts for those with front diff locks. They will be a bit more expensive than cv's but from what I hear, well worth it! "

Here is a pic of it

r101052_308672.jpg

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Anyway.................

Cutting back to the chase.

The price seems to be improving, I started off with the Toyota stealer for a laugh, his first guess, with no real effort to find the true figure was about £400. I thanked him for his time and left.

I asked on Difflock if there was any information about cheap suppliers, meanwhile I phoned my local motorfactor, who chuckled and said we don't sell many of them - £140+.

Milners was the only suggestion on Difflock, they want £80+

Then I found a geezer on eBay shipping them from Oz, $55 each (£22)! plus shipping $65, total £50 give or take. Great, so I emailed him asking how long they would take, the reply within hours, 5-10 days. I returned his email ordering three. Silence for a week now despite contacting through ebay and even texting him.

In the interim I spotted an ad in the local paper for Drive Shaft UK, who phoned me back very quick from their email request form and quoted £79+ delivered.

I am currently on the trail of another supplier but I can't let on just yet, hopefully sub £50.

I run an 80 series as my road vehicle and towing vehicle.

I/Gwyn replaced the original cv's and drive members with replacements from milner due to large amounts of wear in the outer splines approx 150,000 miles.

I have since had one of these after market cv's break (cage and inner) after less than 10,000 mile thie vehicle had not done any serious off roading.

I tried to get milner to offer me some compensation/future discount but to no avail.

A contributing factor to the breakage I think in my case was that this was before I disconnected the low range diff lock switch, and I regularly used low range to manouver trailers into position.

I am now running the old cv's with new drive members.

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Early 70 series cv's are the same size as the minitrucks. The later 78 series (troopy) and 79 series (tray back) have the larger cv's (same as 80 series).

I don't know about the newly released 70 series (the one with the new v8 diesel). My guess is they are the same as 78 and 79 series, as they are just an update of these to accept the v8 engine (the old 6 cyl can't comply with current emission requirements).

John, I don't know why Toyota bothered, but the 78 series CV's are an intermediate size, half way between the 40/60/75's and the 80/100 series. I did measure one once but have forgot the numbers, almost 100mm i think. Anyway, luckily for me but not too many others nowadays, these can be fitted into Series Landy swivel housings.

bill.

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