jsstevo Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 As the title says :- The ALRC Nationals - Who went and what did you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 As the title says :- The ALRC Nationals - Who went and what did you think? I was there.... The weather ruined the weekend for everyone... Many of the ALRC members prove the Jehovah's Witnesses right and Darwin wrong There is no evolution a IIA with a rollbar, 109" 1 ton shackles and 7.50 SATs is still a current offroad vehcile.! The same rules that stop a Disco entering the RTV as he had a non Genuine winch bumper allows a V8 Efi to be put in a chopped down semi spaceframe with coil suspension and disc brakes to be run as a 1952 Series 1 .... All in all I did enjoy the weekend but can't help feeling that the end is nigh unless the ALRC starts to catch up and attract some of the LR public who are going elsewhere.... Intersting thing is that most of the stuff I sold on my trade stand was against the rules! Obviously going to be put on vehicles that were going to be used elsewhere.... QED David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyzeus Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 quote " The same rules that stop a Disco entering the RTV as he had a non Genuine winch bumper allows a V8 Efi to be put in a chopped down semi spaceframe with coil suspension and disc brakes to be run as a 1952 Series 1 .... unquote a few people i know feel the same - me included Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsstevo Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 Well, rules are rules. Most ALRC Comp Safari's are open now so you can race any MSA vehicle there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Well, rules are rules.Most ALRC Comp Safari's are open now so you can race any MSA vehicle there. Which rather proves the point, other than the bigger interclub events most ARC safaris are poorly attended (or not arranged in the first place) unless open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 Hi Guys Well I was there and had a great trial in the TRV till the last section when a blonde moment struck and I collected a 10! Was being shown how to drive all day by a fellow in a 110 crew cab who was on all clears till the last section, and then picked up a 6. A wonderfull display of driving, even if he didn't care how much damage he did to his motor. Contrary to popular belief, I don't set out to damage my Range Rover, it just happens that way! Nice to meet you at the event Dave. I will order up the brake pipes when I get the tape measure out in 5 weeks time. At present working out the country. All the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 It was wet, windy but still good to watch!!! Pity there were so few traders, and no club shop I dont see the problem with the rules, all clubs in all sports have them. The ALRC even print a big book with the rules and regs in it, so theres no excuses for not passing scrutineering (I do understand that some clubs are more lenient than others, but this is the big one so they will be pedantic) Only downer was not being allowed to ride to the trials, kinda defeated the object of taking the bikes. Roll on next year at Eastnor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 Totally agree with David Llama, the ARC will go out of existance, unless they move with times a little, The shops are full of bolt on goodies, bumpers, wheels, diff lockers etc, and most people do not want to drive a bog standard 90 or series etc, the mags are full of goodies but the ARC will not let be used, bumper must be standard width height depth etc and parallel to bodywork, no more than 100" offset at wheel etc etc etc. The 1970's style regulations are killing the clubs. Roverdrive in his standard range Rover with Grizzly Claws (which they thought long and hard about banning) cannot help but agree, when "Lancashire and Cheshire ARC" rarely have more than 3 RTV's at an event it confirms my words sorry but true, it will not pay for sites landowners are constantly after more money and after all most people do not want to compete against a standard 1986 Range Rover with an owner who does not to scatch it. The other big headache for the ARC is traction control and factory fitted lockers etc, whats good enough for one must be good enough for all, so before you fade into history have a real good think because not everybody turns up first time in a comp safari or a 80" triailer you must do something to attract and keep attracted newcomers and RTVs with a bit a bling and bolt on. AWDC regulary attract in the North West 20+ vehicles in RTV alone without Modified and Open classes, its easy to scorn but its a fact. Wake up or you will be gone the traders obviously know that from the Nationals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MudAllOverIt Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 so theres no excuses for not passing scrutineering Or lots of reasons not to bother turning up -- just depends on your point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Boothy Yes that was indeed me, but can't really call it 100% std with the steering guards etc. However they are bolt on goodies that are allowed. As soon as the re location cones are allowed I will be fitting them as well. I had a spring pop out on a section due to the jubilee clip snapping, so just shows what forces are being put through the brackets in the wrong direction. ( believe these are allowed next year). Not sure what you mean by "- after all most people do not want to compete against a standard 1986 Range Rover with an owner who does not to scatch it." ?? I believe RTV's are now at a point where CCV was 15 years ago with regard to the severity of the sections set out, so it is no longer possible to assume that the motor will not get some panel damage. Sad but true. This is why Tyro's have been invented, and who wants to compete in them? We tried running a few but no one entered. I agree the ALRC needs to get its act together and move with the times, even if they have a speacial class for motors with the modified bits and pieces and lump tham all together. At least they can play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 I was ( I think ) the only trader there who sold anything Land Rover rather than tools etc. And other than I went for a different reason ( promote the rOUGH Country brand ) there was little point in being there!"!! Having said that the people there had gone to compete not to buy so up to a point this was to be expected. The trade stand was cheap ( compared to the shows ) though very overpriced for what was offered and the event was not far to travel so I went along anyway. My moanings about the rules are the inconsistencies - how is a Tomcat allowed to be a Series 1?? It can't use the plastic fueltank of a Disco though even though nearly all the rest of the car is made from the same Disco as the tank had to be thrown away!! Why can't you use a Ford engine? You could easily get away with using a Ford battery. Many moons ago I knew a chap who raced a Morgan with an owners club - and if it wasn't Morgan throughout your simply were not allowed. Yet the ALRC allows you to put K&N filters onto a V8 which Land Rover as a Company never did. Rules are rules - but if the rules pit people off they will go elswhere for their playing.... The Brotish Motorcycle Industry style of head in the sand we are best mentality stills reigns supreme within the ALRC!! One man at the Nationals asked me why you woulkd want a suspension system better than LR gave you... He had actually answered his own question -" Some want a better suspension than the one that LR gave them! QED I cannot help but feel that if the ALRC were not bailed out each year by the subscriptions and they had to 'stay in business' through their generated rather than donated finances they would have gone skint a long time ago! There was much talk of declining numbers and of the good old days of Narionals and yet less thought pit into why it is all going wrong! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsstevo Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 I believe that L&C had to close entries before hand for the RTV, CCV and Comp Safari. Does that indicate numbers are falling? There were over 90 motors in the Comp Safari alone. Yes, it was poor to see not many trade stands and no club shop but I’ll get over it. And aren’t RTV’s suppose to be none damaging? A TYRO should be used to get people interested in our sport driving a nice road car like a Disco that their parents used to tow the caravan there. Regarding moving with the times, isn’t that the drivers responsibility? This year there was a Freelander in the comp, can’t remember seeing any Disco’s but there were some there at the BORC and S&S events. ALRC is a very affordable way to get into racing and people will use what ever they can get hold of. I think it’s just very easy (well, relatively) to build a and maintain a Series 1 than put a Disco back together that’s been accident damaged. E.g. replacing a flat ally panel is a lot easier than finding the exact Disco panel. Hey, this thread was about what people though of the Nationals not what’s wrong with the ALRC! And regarding the suspension, why didn't you just say 'Go and watch the Compers'? Then you see what good suspension does for you. Most are now running Fox's and some Ohlins (And please don't start replying with 'Land Rover didn't fit them!'). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Numbers are falling overall, not in the events perhaps, but certainly in the overall weekend ( campers / traders / general LR owners ).... I think if you are involved in ALRC Comp Safari or CCV then you will not see the issues that the 'general Land Rover public' have with the rules... A semi spaceframe comp / trialler with trick suspension is a capable and repected trialler / comp motor at any club or formay. The people who are being alienated are the ones who own a LR, buy the magazines, go to the shows and buy the goodies they read about or see. They then suddenly find themselves unable to join their local LR club because of their bumper / suspension etc. These are the people who go to the watered down offroad world because although they wear the LR Tshirt with the same pride they are sent to Coventry by the LR clubs. BACK TO THE NATIONALS- Good to see a very healthy event entry The weather was carp The trade area was so small / poorlys supported it wasn't worth visiting - maybe free stands to trade and a duty to the participating clubs to have a promotional stand might solve this. As I say I went to promote the Rough Country brand but my weekend take was less than the cost of the stand! No diesel included and not the profit - the actual gross takings was less! Then again how can you have a rational discussion or sell anything ( all LR stuff on my stand ) to someone who marched off in a huff because I was talking about Suzukis to a customer ( who had a LR aswell ). That is the old motorcycle thing again and will be the death of the ALRC if this sort of person is not checked... David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshlaner2 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Numbers are falling overall, not in the events perhaps, but certainly in the overall weekend ( campers / traders / general LR owners ).... Well i considered it, and a few years ago would have gone without a though Instead went laning on some days, group mumbers were up and lots of groups out, consideing a bank holiday thats what i would expect But i was also invited to other things which clashed on the weekend, about 4 non advertiesd private events all within North east Wales where groups (some within clubs) rent a farm, cottage with land, whole small campsite or a quarry for the weekend. Could not stay with them all but did visit them, most went laning on the day but some where using the sites as private play day, mini motos everywhere, no rules, good family atomsphere all enjoying themselves. Meet a few ex trailers from the past all said the same and similar to whats been said, too many silly little rules, fun element has gone, too expensive, kids like it here cause allowed a bit of freedom, like the camp site fire atomsphere. Now i'am not knocking the ARC i've enjoyed it in the past and still have lots of friends who do it, but have noticed times are changing, one group I counted 22 vechicles asked how much told £5 camping for the whole weekend. Ask the campsite owners and there happy, they know them, coming for years, close the site to the general public and let them do what they want within reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozyboy Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Back to the original question. Who went and what did they think. I went, did the RTV, No damage, although as in most trials you can easily pick up damage if your not careful. Planned to do CCV but had to return home for other reasons. Numbers, i too believe numbers for both RTV and CCV were full. As far as i'm aware (we had one in our group) you can play with odd bumpers, in special class, we had a RR lifted with hoofing great bumpers, and he did pretty well. Do i like everything thing the ARC do, NO. Am i happy to stay, YES. Traders, do i go to look at trade stands, no i go to trial, if i get chance i'll look at traders in the evening, its not a SHOW its not billing, its a TRIAL / Safari, and event etc etc. An 80 coiler recently changed hands on ebay for £1250, therefore how can say this be expensive motorsport, when a 90, caged, and winched, lockered will be the best part of £10K (For owt decent) Just my 2 peneth. Over and out. Oz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 <snip> As I say I went to promote the Rough Country brand but my weekend take was less than the cost of the stand! No diesel included and not the profit - the actual gross takings was less!</snip>David David I promise to order the brake lines as soon as I get home! Hope this pays for your diesel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Ozyboy You are right in pointing out that it is a National competition not a show. I had a wander around the stands later on after the days marshalling, but that was about it. David If you hadn't had a presence on this forum, I probably wouldn't have made the " effort" to come across and introduce myself. I would then have missed out on seeing the goodies on the stand! It is a shame for you that the event was a disappointment. I don't know that things would have been any better had the sun shone. L&C are a small club, and most of us were running round like idiots trying to get things done. The priority after that is a beer and a natter. As a competitor, the most useful things to me are track rod ends, half shafts, and any other consumables that might brak during the event. If my motor isn't ready to compete as soon as it is on site, I have no business being at a National event. Just my 2 penn'th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsstevo Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 Well put Roverdriver. We too spent a lot on the motor before the Nationals. 2 years ago the stand selling tyres did a lot of business when it started raining in the Comp. And no effense to David's stall, I'm sure these Shocks are good for Road/Green Laning Landies, but people who are spending on Shocks doing these events are going for the upper market Shocks. If you look around at the motors being used to tow the competition motors there are a lot more Mits, Nissans and Trucks than they used to be and less Land Rovers. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Well put Roverdriver. We too spent a lot on the motor before the Nationals. 2 years ago the stand selling tyres did a lot of business when it started raining in the Comp.And no effense to David's stall, I'm sure these Shocks are good for Road/Green Laning Landies, but people who are spending on Shocks doing these events are going for the upper market Shocks. If you look around at the motors being used to tow the competition motors there are a lot more Mits, Nissans and Trucks than they used to be and less Land Rovers. Cheers! I have mentioned in previous posts that I know the National is an event not a Show and so it should remain..... I saw very few upper market shocks at all - a few Fox on some Comp motors so a lot of them were running lesser gas ones or even hydraulics. Even fewer of the triallers had anything any more exciting than a ProComp on and most of the tow trucks were on things I could easily supply - hence my going in the first place... The organisation was fine - small or large club the job was done. I can't help but feel though a that a few more hangers on would raise the whole profile of the events for the trade and public. The tyre trader must have sold his entire stock that day, enough to retire to the sun. Otherwise surely he would have come back to try again and I didn't see him.... I am not saying that the Nationals should become a Show, but I would love the job of organising the parrallel show at the same venue for the same weekend and making it as good as a Show but will all the activities aswell!! David David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozyboy Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Some very interesting comments, good debate. I am glad this is not a bun fight, but nicely turning into how can we make this better type debate... Quoting David:-) I am not saying that the Nationals should become a Show, but I would love the job of organising the parrallel show at the same venue for the same weekend and making it as good as a Show but will all the activities aswell!! Its Midland ROC who are organising next years national, at Eastnor, no doubt they are short of boddies, have you David thought of offering guidance to MROC on the setting up of a better traders area / how to attract traders / best cheging mechanism. Maybe not directly running it, but the offer of how does this appeal to a traders?? or how MROC could improve it commercial offering. Just a thought. Its also the 60th anniversary!!! http://www.mroc-national2008.co.uk/index.html (Don't do clicky) Any thoughts. Oz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 We were talking about post01 vehicles with traction control, superchargers, etc. We felt there should be new classes set up that would allow these vehicles, basically the same as the classes we have at the moment but if you use any part or vehicle thats post01 youre in that class. The hardest part may be racing against a supercharged sport, but then again 2l s1 leafer against 4.6 "s1" coiler isnt the most level playing field, but it sure makes you feel good when you beat them The reason AWDC fields look so full is that the run RTV and CCV on the same course at the same time, whilst it cuts costs it also gives a false picture about entry numbers. The AWDC series goes around the country, whilst ALRC are area based with just a few National events. AWDC allow 'zukis which are dirt cheap to buy, build and maintain-something that cant be said about LR's. As for relocation cones, etc where do they fit on my Series2?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I was a confirmed ALRC trailer in series 2 V8 Landy, and I am a confirmed trialer and challange competitor with the AWDC and various other smaller clubs, so I do know how the AWDC North West area run their trials and the amount of vehicles usually present, either G Wagon Japanese or indeed the good old Land Rover, of which I am an owner. The point I was trying to make is, an introduction into CCV etc is usually through RTV, and yes I agree it should be non damaging, but if no one bothers or can find a standard vehicle to turn up in then they will go elsewhere, which is what they are doing, and the other clubs will benefit and find them a class, and a level to compete in. Tyro is hardly ever entered with Northern ALRC clubs, as indeed is the RTV, with as stated before one or possibly two regular entrants. Yes I have trailed against Disco 3's and zucki's of all shapes and descriptions and yes, they are very good, and yes there are long waits at starts of sections because of high numbers of vehicles entered, but thats good, thats what will keep the clubs going, and pay for the cost of sites etc. Who will replace people, who either though ill health, old age, or just got fed up with it, ex ALRC members if they are not coming through the ranks? After all a good standard series is not an easily affordable item in good nick any more for a newcomer to bounce around a quarry and a good coilsprung is likely to have goodies bolted to it, and most people do not have a coil sprung 80incher they saw in the local paper. Roverdrive, I was not being personal or having a go at anybody imparticular just a general dig. Get em in to the 21 century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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