Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Righty Ho then 5th week as a 'Studunt' has see me heating up with a gas torch bits of steel learning about the weld pool, key hole, wire angle, torch angle, tip size gas pressures starting with thick (3mm ++ plates and then going down thinner and thinner) and gawd knows what else. Although I signed up for 'ali welding' the lecturer has started me on gas, then switched me to TIG DC Steel, and tonight came over with 2 bits of around I'd say 0.5mm steel, and said "Weld them then." Apart from starting by blowing a hole (too much on the pedal said "B*gger" and then continued he laughed) then he picked up what I had done said "Yep - S Ok, Next week your moving to AC Nige - and then all hell will break loose for you" I have kept the plates done tonight that 'got me to Ali' next week (5 weeks then on ALI ) and Please can those TIG welders amongst you out there comment as to my efforts, MIG seems a Joy and so simple compared to TIG, I have been warned by many that "You'll have fun" with ali So, comments on me efforts ? Be gentle Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I've been watching the old "4x4 is born" over the weekend. Mark had huge problemms Tiginng the tub and suggested contaminated ali. Is LR alli stilll Birmabright or is it normal ali now? I recall a magazine article on ali soldering and they recond it was easier on a LR tub due to the Birmabright alloy? PS where can I find a college teaching welding at a low price? Reading seems to have stopped just as I can afford to go back to try TIG! PPS 5 weeks to be able to do that, how many days a week cos I'm impressed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 I've been watching the old "4x4 is born" over the weekend.Mark had huge problemms Tiginng the tub and suggested contaminated ali. Is LR alli stilll Birmabright or is it normal ali now? I recall a magazine article on ali soldering and they recond it was easier on a LR tub due to the Birmabright alloy? PS where can I find a college teaching welding at a low price? Reading seems to have stopped just as I can afford to go back to try TIG! PPS 5 weeks to be able to do that, how many days a week cos I'm impressed! 5 weeks 1 night per week 2 hours per night Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Nige - great post, I had been meaning to ask how it was going (was thinking of pming). Your weld there looks about the same as my best efforts so far. But if that pic is 0.5mm sheet, I think we can safely say you're ahead of me!!! Looks pretty consistent to me! I'd be proud of that. Great even HAZ and pretty damn good filler (if you ask me). Got caught out trying to weld up a mates car door (inside) that had a stress facture the other day. Decided to go with the Tig cos it was a nice opportunity to have a blast with some MEGA-thin stuff (and he's a very good mate with a very carp car, so it doesn't matter ). With no pedal and no HF start it was nigh on impossible (for me). Managed to get something which did the job, but it wasn't exactly immaculate! Had you gas welded much before? I've done a little arc, and the rest is all Mig, and it shows, frankly). You say that one has a foot control, so I guess its HF start too? Have you tried without? Did you buy a tig yet (I saw the thread about the one you bought and (maybe?) passed on to Jez)? Do you practice much? Looks like some good fast progress? I've been DC'ing mild and (more recently) stainless (once I could afford the filler!!!). As I say, so far the best bits look like that, but on a thicker parent metal. Would love to see your attempts at ali - keep us posted! Sorry I can't offer much constructive criticism... Looks very good to me, I'm seeing zero heat deformation. Would be interested on the filler/gas/machine specs if you have any. Great stuff! Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 Ya Al, Knowing tomoorow Tonk may be back I am still hiding awaiting the grown up welders comments. Yep its .5mm thick, the kit is a BIG 3 phase Migatronic with a pedal thingy, has HF Start but no 'Pulse' filler was 1.6mm as thats all they had, I did some 3mm steel butt joints and the filler was superb, its was thicky here as .5mm steel and thick filler sort of meant too nmuch heat = hole vs not enough and filler sat there, nice thing with the pedal is to get the weld pool then back off and keep moving with the filler rod.... Love the pedal, rather than twioddling millions of knobs, its like an accelerator on a car, and I am being done for speeding and dangerous now and again If I do buy a TIG it will be a AC DC INvertor plus pedal, bit like having / learning on one probably be a problem using anything else I have only practised gas a couple of times between the course as I have a disposable Mapgas Oxy set up, I have really only ever used it for heating or cutting, but now see it for the odd bit of gas welding maybe. Gas welding and Tig don't seem a million miles apart, gas seems to my untrained brain to be kinder and more forgiving than TIG BOTH are skills in so much as I do not expect to be doing beautifull welds for some long time yet, and its easy on tig DC VERY easy to pop a hole. As I left one of the other instructors heard I was going to Ali next week, he laughed nd said "and you think DC Tig" is hard ? oooo Gawd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Nige, if thats 0.5mm thick then u r doing well, got a pic of the back of it? AC next week! start on thick Ali if u can, cos thin Ali will have u cursing somewhat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsie Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Had my first go on a TIG welder last week,first on stainless then alli,couldnt get on with it till the guy rigged the pedal up then i did ok.I found welding ally easier than steel once the ally was up to temp JUst got to save up £800 now for the machine and pedal Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco tony Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Ya Al,Knowing tomoorow Tonk may be back I am still hiding awaiting the grown up welders comments. Yep its .5mm thick, the kit is a BIG 3 phase Migatronic with a pedal thingy, has HF Start but no 'Pulse' filler was 1.6mm as thats all they had, I did some 3mm steel butt joints and the filler was superb, its was thicky here as .5mm steel and thick filler sort of meant too nmuch heat = hole vs not enough and filler sat there, nice thing with the pedal is to get the weld pool then back off and keep moving with the filler rod.... Love the pedal, rather than twioddling millions of knobs, its like an accelerator on a car, and I am being done for speeding and dangerous now and again If I do buy a TIG it will be a AC DC INvertor plus pedal, bit like having / learning on one probably be a problem using anything else I have only practised gas a couple of times between the course as I have a disposable Mapgas Oxy set up, I have really only ever used it for heating or cutting, but now see it for the odd bit of gas welding maybe. Gas welding and Tig don't seem a million miles apart, gas seems to my untrained brain to be kinder and more forgiving than TIG BOTH are skills in so much as I do not expect to be doing beautifull welds for some long time yet, and its easy on tig DC VERY easy to pop a hole. As I left one of the other instructors heard I was going to Ali next week, he laughed nd said "and you think DC Tig" is hard ? oooo Gawd T.I.G and gas are very similar but T.I.G has an arc temp of about 6000 deg.c and gas is about 2300 deg.c This means a lot more time is used for gas and that is why the heat spreads causing greater distortion. Your efforts are very good for a beginner, dont be too scared of ali, its just practice when you know the basics and how to set the machine paramiters. Hope your instructor also tells you to use a different electrode to steel and to grind a different angle on the point, all makes a BIG difference. Good luck, looking forward to seeing your results, (ps, will you get a qualification or just a certificate of attendance)? Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 well, 1st night on Ali I 'aint posting any pics - I KNOW all I did was dreadfull be in touch in 5 weeks (end of course) Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 how thick was the material u started with? (before it melted into a mess ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 how thick was the material u started with? (before it melted into a mess ) 3mm Was "OK" Moving the weld pool about on 1 flat bit of ali Was "OK" Making and moving the weld pool on 1 flat bit of ali and adding in filler Then trying to create a Butt Joint saw me Grumble Swear 'a lot' and make lots of big holes melted ali edges and a general F ali mess. "I am the Ali Will W of TIGing " Instructor peered in sniggerred and said "You won't pick this up so quick nige " And he aint wrong there ! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share Posted June 18, 2007 Good Grief This ali welding lark is a NIGHTMARE.......... Tonight was "Ali welding second evening" session foir me I got a load of stick right at the start : "Ok evening everybody (now down to 5), now let me see, you and you wnat to do OA - off you go set it up, your on ARC, your on MIG, and you (me) are going to melt grumble swear and ruin some perfectly good off cuts of Ali " Other 4 laugh, hmmmm......Yes thank you Mr Instructor Ha Bl**dy Ha ...........(true tho) So, 1st I set it all up, basic 3 Phase AC welder, (no pulse), just cont freq and AC lever, and the 'pedal from hell' "Righty ho then nige- ................ 1 Bit of ali, just as last time, ................ form a pool and move torch add rod, ................ back off pedal, ..........................see you in half a hour..... and after about 20 mins had a half (ok Quarter) decent blobby weld ON TOP of a piece of 3mm ali... "Ok Nige, .................. now for the fun part,.......................... 2 bits ..........small gap ..................and I would like you to tack and weld them together, ......................back in 5 mins.....:" Here's the BEST after 5 minutes.... and the real loverley beaut in all its (melted) Glory : So more sniggering from the instructor, some kind words and theory, more P*ss taking..... and a hell of a load of test runs / practise / swearing ................ saw me just about almost get a blobby weld without melting the whole lot to a dreadfull mess : The holes evrywhere are I think "Bad technique" as he put it - ie I was nearly there but not, Torch Angle wrong / Not quite there, rod angle speed wrong/ Not quite there Heat wrong / Not quite there, ....my boots I think he said were done up OK much more grumbling swearing off cuts ............... and then............... just before the end ........... I actually managed this : A sort of barely acceptable weld the "Melting at the end is due to the heat build up meaning I needed to back off the pedal MORE and MORE rod and FASTER hand with torch, ..............none of which I did quite right hence the melting look, ...........but I DIDN'T .............for once blow a hole ! I sort of almost felt something in my brain sort of go "AH HA" sort of nearly maybe got it, instructor was complimentary and said with 4 weeks @ 2 hours each session more I was going to be improving a huge amount ......... ..and that frankly I was doing well, ........(and not to take the P*ss takes too much ) All in all I feel I am sort of "Getting (somewhere) there" ish..... ? To be continued........... (next Monday) In the meantime..................................................... 'may the ribbing begin' .......................... Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco tony Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Good GriefThis ali welding lark is a NIGHTMARE.......... Tonight was "Ali welding second evening" session foir me I got a load of stick right at the start : "Ok evening everybody (now down to 5), now let me see, you and you wnat to do OA - off you go set it up, your on ARC, your on MIG, and you (me) are going to melt grumble swear and ruin some perfectly good off cuts of Ali " Other 4 laugh, hmmmm......Yes thank you Mr Instructor Ha Bl**dy Ha ...........(true tho) So, 1st I set it all up, basic 3 Phase AC welder, (no pulse), just cont freq and AC lever, and the 'pedal from hell' "Righty ho then nige- ................ 1 Bit of ali, just as last time, ................ form a pool and move torch add rod, ................ back off pedal, ..........................see you in half a hour..... and after about 20 mins had a half (ok Quarter) decent blobby weld ON TOP of a piece of 3mm ali... "Ok Nige, .................. now for the fun part,.......................... 2 bits ..........small gap ..................and I would like you to tack and weld them together, ......................back in 5 mins.....:" Here's the BEST after 5 minutes.... and the real loverley beaut in all its (melted) Glory : So more sniggering from the instructor, some kind words and theory, more P*ss taking..... and a hell of a load of test runs / practise / swearing ................ saw me just about almost get a blobby weld without melting the whole lot to a dreadfull mess : The holes evrywhere are I think "Bad technique" as he put it - ie I was nearly there but not, Torch Angle wrong / Not quite there, rod angle speed wrong/ Not quite there Heat wrong / Not quite there, ....my boots I think he said were done up OK much more grumbling swearing off cuts ............... and then............... just before the end ........... I actually managed this : A sort of barely acceptable weld the "Melting at the end is due to the heat build up meaning I needed to back off the pedal MORE and MORE rod and FASTER hand with torch, ..............none of which I did quite right hence the melting look, ...........but I DIDN'T .............for once blow a hole ! I sort of almost felt something in my brain sort of go "AH HA" sort of nearly maybe got it, instructor was complimentary and said with 4 weeks @ 2 hours each session more I was going to be improving a huge amount ......... ..and that frankly I was doing well, ........(and not to take the P*ss takes too much ) All in all I feel I am sort of "Getting (somewhere) there" ish..... ? To be continued........... (next Monday) In the meantime..................................................... 'may the ribbing begin' .......................... Nige picture 3 looks like your pulling your filler wire too far out the re-inserting into gas shroud which is giving you the holes due to oxygen inclusion in the gas shield. Keep practicing, you're not far away, once you know what your looking for, knowing how to achieve it is just around the corner!! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share Posted June 18, 2007 picture 3 looks like your pulling your filler wire too far out the re-inserting into gas shroud which is giving you the holes due to oxygen inclusion in the gas shield It could well be.... ....it could also be cos I iz absolutely cr*p at this at the mo generally Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 its all about time on gun fella - keep at it what are you prepping the plate with before you hit it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share Posted June 18, 2007 its all about time on gun fella - keep at it what are you prepping the plate with before you hit it? "A Prayer" Instructor says not to worry at the mo as it is brand new off cuts and they are clean and shiney, says that yes prep is good, but get basic tech 1st ?? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 clean it, doesnt look like the balance is set to give much cleaning action, aluminium oxide melts at a much higher temp than base metal- end result is base metal having a bad day, either that or dial in some more "clean love" on the balance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 good going Nige, its all down to practise imo. when you're ready we'll give you some extra practise at me works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Good going Nige. Envious I enjoyed my short course on Arc annd wanted to go back for TIG and Gas. Can't wait to see your work at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 27, 2007 Author Share Posted June 27, 2007 Another week has come and gone, another 2 hours AC TIG welding messing up perfectly good bits of ali Its not easy this Tig AC Lark But not as bad a the coleague 'next door 'who managed to weld the test plate to the torch so well the plate and rod had to be cut apart with a disc No pics of my efforts this week - cos I iz embarrased Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 Well 2 weeks worth of practise and I have (and I am chuffed even tho they are poor ) some ali welds. These are from tonight, the LHS is .8mm ali the RHS 3.2mm Ali. Although 2 bits welded together in the centre he often has me just heating the weld pool and laying the filler rod to guage speed rod torch angle etc etc...... The welds are "Erm Bloobyish" but the instructor says I am doing well - he says virtually noone attends these courses to learn AC TIG and in 12 weeks I aint doing bad as only 4 of those have been on AC TIG, prior was Gas and then DC TIG. However the next weeks session is the last one and there is no way I can do much else than a simple butt weld, so I will have to think what to do next, he said either the same again later in the year, buy a machine and practise, or go for the full 37 week 2x per week level 1 certicicated course I have to now have a think, but I can at least now do a barely pasable AC Ali TIG weld, which is far more than 11 weeks ago May the P**s taking now recontinue Its Kin difficuly AC TIG 'respect' to those who can it takes a lot to learn ( Oh ...and that excludes me BTW ) Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco tony Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Well 2 weeks worth of practise and I have (and I am chuffed even tho they are poor ) some ali welds.These are from tonight, the LHS is .8mm ali the RHS 3.2mm Ali. Although 2 bits welded together in the centre he often has me just heating the weld pool and laying the filler rod to guage speed rod torch angle etc etc...... The welds are "Erm Bloobyish" but the instructor says I am doing well - he says virtually noone attends these courses to learn AC TIG and in 12 weeks I aint doing bad as only 4 of those have been on AC TIG, prior was Gas and then DC TIG. However the next weeks session is the last one and there is no way I can do much else than a simple butt weld, so I will have to think what to do next, he said either the same again later in the year, buy a machine and practise, or go for the full 37 week 2x per week level 1 certicicated course I have to now have a think, but I can at least now do a barely pasable AC Ali TIG weld, which is far more than 11 weeks ago May the P**s taking now recontinue Its Kin difficuly AC TIG 'respect' to those who can it takes a lot to learn ( Oh ...and that excludes me BTW ) Nige No need for p taking Nige, you did real good, or as they say round yer, "theymze salrite innum"!! Its all in the practice once you know how to set your parameters, you obviously know what to look for in a weld, half the battle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 looks like u've got the basics there Nige, its just practise and playing with settings to get better, dont bother with another course, just get a machine and start welding, i may be able to chuck some offcuts your way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 its all time on gun baby - get busy at home and dont forget what you've learned, if you have a bad weld day at home dont keep bashing away; stop, have a coffee and have another try later if you do put multiple welds on the same piece of practice plate get a few on the go at the same time, allow the practice plates enough time to cool - otherwise the current and travel speed the plate needs will vary as it heats up - keep at it fella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 KIN HELL Thats me lot ! My 10 week course was up - last session tonight Ho Hum. Anyway, 5 weeks was Gas welding and a bit of DC work, then 5 weeks on AC As I have siad before I never thought AC would be so F dificult As at tonight these were the best welds I could manage, the butt welds are getting better, the T weld is a whole different problem Ho hum - Yes thats a hole I burnt away at 1 end, both pics the Ali is 0.8mm gawd knows what grade the ali or the rods are Will now have to have a think what to do next, as my AC Wwelding is nowhere near good enough yet, so thinking cap is on for options (which I have a few kind offers that I will almost certainly take up ) So, there you go, 10 weeks at college 1 night per week 2 hours per night - was it worth it ? Yes, I would say, better if You wnated to learn MIG ARC or maybe gas, DC and AC TIG welding frankly is too far a target for a 10 week course esp as you have to have some ability via Gas and DC Tig before they will let you near Ali AC, so in real terms thats a 5 week course on Ali They also do a 37 week course for level 1 2 and 3 with Certificated (if you pas) quallies at the end - and many don't pass, whilst I don't care re the quallies, AC isn't till level 3 Ho Hum, thinking cap on ....at least I now have some of the basics Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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