Anglo-Frenchman Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 I took the engine out of my 200tdi CSW today to replace the rear crank seal which has been leaking for ages and as always this has revealed some other issues which I would really like some advice on. 1/ It turns out that that the rear seal is as dry as a bone and the leak is actually coming from the joint between the rear of the crank case and the flywheel housing. My first question is if I case the flywheel housing off, what am I getting into? Can I simply take the housing off, smear the mating faces with compound to resolve the leak and refix or am I being overly optimistic and will there be any other consumables which I will have to replace in order to do this? 2/ I noted that the clutch assembly is battered to b*ggery and looks a bit like one of those hammered pewter tankards! I can't see anything that could have caused this but am replacing it anyway. Any ideas as to what could have caused this? There was no indication that anything was wrong with it and it was operating perfectly. No missing springs or anything like that. 3/ On removing the engine I noted that there seems to be some oil seepage around the front of the exhaust manifold on the head. any ideas what the cause of this could be? I would really appreciate some adivce on this - especially the 1st question as I am hoping to get it back in tomorrow. By the way I would personally like to offer the award of All time Tw*t of the Century to whoever was responsible for the positioning of the bolts to the engine mounts and the bell housing nuts - particularly the one directly under the starter motor which required the removal of the driver's floor to get at. Rant over. Ged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Re #1, on early engines the book says to use silicone sealant in a special pattern. But nowadays there is a proper gasket to use. That was at least the case on my Disco engine and I suppose the same goes for a Def. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 By the way I would personally like to offer the award of All time Tw*t of the Century to whoever was responsible for the positioning of the bolts to the engine mounts and the bell housing nuts - particularly the one directly under the starter motor which required the removal of the driver's floor to get at. Rant over. The method in the workshop manual (which I find easier) is to lift the engine, remove the engine mounts and lower the engine down without the mounts. All flywheel nuts are then accesable.... As to the flywheel housing, you should be able to seal it with any normally sealing method that suits your fancy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Frenchman Posted June 6, 2007 Author Share Posted June 6, 2007 Thanks Red90. I did follw the book but still found that no matter how far you lowered the engine that nut under the starter would not clear the bulkhead enough to get a spanner/socket on it - hence the floor coming out. On the subject of the flywheel housing, if I take it off do I then open a Pandora's box of hassle or can it litterally be taken off, sealed and refitted without impacting on the crank itself or any other parts of the engine's innards? Thanks, Ged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 1 -- Yep, thats about it, you will not disturb the crankshaft or engine internal parts, just rip the clutch/flywheel/rear plate off & fix the leak, it's just bolts/nuts job. 2 -- clutch cover looks cracked in a few places, it's in heck of a state, no probs though as your fitting a complete new clutch kit. 3 -- oil most likely from the rocker cover seal or spillage when topping up the engine oil. hth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Frenchman Posted June 6, 2007 Author Share Posted June 6, 2007 Thanks Ralph. Any thoughts on the battered cluch assembly? Sorry, our posts crossed. The oil on the head looks like its coming from the exhaust port to me but I could be wrong - thought it might be a valve issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 can't see why it would look like that, there's nothing that would create that damage in the bell housing, maybe it's just a poorly made cover. between the rear plate & block is a gasket ERR1440, you may need a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Frenchman Posted June 6, 2007 Author Share Posted June 6, 2007 In the absence of the gasket could I do it with sealing compound? I only say this because Bob is a few day's post away from me and I need to be rolling again ASAP! On a different matter I saw in the Haynes book that the turbo has to be 'primed on refitting the engine. Is this correct? Thanks again Ged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 That clutch cover looks like it's taken quite a hammering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 In the absence of the gasket could I do it with sealing compound? I only say this because Bob is a few day's post away from me and I need to be rolling again ASAP!On a different matter I saw in the Haynes book that the turbo has to be 'primed on refitting the engine. Is this correct? Thanks again Ged a bead of silicone sealant between the 2 faces will be fine, the gasket is only to take up the surface irregularities of the material. turbo doesn't need priming, their refering to the oil pressure feed to the turbo, just remove the feed pipe banjo bolt & add some clean engine oil, then refit bolt & seal washers, then start the engine, it's to ensure the turbo bearings aren't starved of oil on initial start after a engine removal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Hi Ged, I,d fit the new seal anyway as you have it ..is there a fitting collar to guide/expand it onto crank ? The oil leak looks like its coming from above the ex port ..rocker cover seal? if you can't find it clean it up & watch it when you are in use again. Sealing the flywheel housing to block I'd use silicone instant gasket type stuff. that clutch has def had loose item(s) rattling around it......are all the pressure plate set screws in place ..in the pic some are loose HTH edit to say loose bits could be damper spring bits from driven plate. Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Frenchman Posted June 6, 2007 Author Share Posted June 6, 2007 Thanks all for your help guys. I've had a good look at the clutch plate but can't see anything missing. The screws are loose in the pic because I was in the process of removing it when taking the photo but well spotted. I guesswhatever it was got knocked to bits and fell out the wading plug hole. I've done over 40K kms over the past 12 months and never noticed anything untoward with the clutch. I was wondering about the crank seal Steve and pondering leaving it alone as it seems to be OK - a case of 'if it ain't broke......' I'd be sick if I changed it and ended up with a leak. What's the consensus? Ged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK CAB Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Regarding the clutch cover, what dose the inside of the flywheel housing look like? Could it be that the cover has been previously used! I would replace the rear crankshaft seal, you will have disturbed it fixing the leak and in any case it maybe getting on a bit. Good luck with the refit. Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 The clutch cover looks to me like a bit of metal has been in there while the clutch has been spinning, it's been hammered many times. Is the inner edge of the bell housing in a similar condition? As the others have said - use RTV sealant between the flywheel housing and engine block. You must always replace the crank rear seal if you disturb it, it'll almost certainly get damaged when you try to refit it - the lip will try to reverse itself as you put it back over the land on the end of the crank. You can carefully tease the lip over the land, but there's a real risk you will split it. Buy a gen seal - some aftermarket ones are real rubbish. Carefully inspect the flywheel face for distortion caused by the obvious imbalance of the damaged clutch cover - you can get flywheels re-faced if it's necessary, but the clutch cover pegs have to be removed first, which is usually very difficult to do. It's usual to do other jobs when intending to do one just because of the likelyhood of other components failing or so cheap or convenient to do while you are 'in there'. Clutch fork - replace that with a reinforced one. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Ged, if you haven't got a new rear crank seal I've got a new unused one here,complete with the lip protector for fitting, yours if you need it, just PM your postal address & I'll get it over to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Frenchman Posted June 7, 2007 Author Share Posted June 7, 2007 Thanks a lot for the offer Ralph but I have got all the bits I need. I'll get it back into the truck today and see how it goes. Ged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 The oil leak from the exhaust manifold is due to failed manifold gasket. Very easy fix, Don't seem to last long though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairyone Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 It turns out that that the rear seal is as dry as a bone and the leak is actually coming from the joint between the rear of the crank case and the flywheel housing. My first question is if I case the flywheel housing off, what am I getting into? Can I simply take the housing off, smear the mating faces with compound to resolve the leak and refix or am I being overly optimistic and will there be any other consumables which I will have to replace in order to do this? I have had an oil soaked gearbox since I've had my 90, but never saw any oil from the drain plug, looked everywhere but was never sure where it was coming from, finally a plausible explanation ... thanks. Hope it all goes back together OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Frenchman Posted June 8, 2007 Author Share Posted June 8, 2007 Just thought I'd let you folks know that I got it all back together and running yesterday evening and all seems well - touch wood. Sadly I made the critical error of failing (forgetting) to reconnect the oil pressure gauge pipe to the filter housing before turning the key so made a nice mess of my drive, chassis, gearbox, engine, dogs.............etc! Anyway, the clutch is much improved and a liberal squirting of RTV appears to have halted the leak from the rear of the flywheel housing - for now. Thanks again to all who stepped up with advice. Ged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 Well done Ged shame about the oil pipe from that I guess you have a capillary feed oil pressure gauge ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 The method in the workshop manual (which I find easier) is to lift the engine, remove the engine mounts and lower the engine down without the mounts. All flywheel nuts are then accesable.... You need a long extension (or 2?) and a universal to reach it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Frenchman Posted June 9, 2007 Author Share Posted June 9, 2007 Yes, I absolutely concur. You cannot reach this bolt by lowering the engine (well I couldn't anyway). Also I was puzzled by the bottom 19mm bolt which secures the engine mount to the block on the off-side (this is a LHD vehicle). The mount has been manufactured with its edges turned up at 90° which effectively utterly prevents you from getting a spanner onto it. The close proximity of the threaded stud on the bottom of the rubber damper (?) prevents you getting a socket on it. What a crazy piece of design! And don't even get me started on why they chose to use Allen screws on the exhaust mounts..........rant........rant..........rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Re the clutch cover ......... Whats the inside surface of the bellhousing look like ? If similar and matching then somethings been trapped in there fighting to get out, if bellhousing is OK then someones bodged the clutch by using that cover in your LR ! ??? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Re the clutch cover .........Whats the inside surface of the bellhousing look like ? If similar and matching then somethings been trapped in there fighting to get out, if bellhousing is OK then someones bodged the clutch by using that cover in your LR ! ??? Nige blimey Nige why did you dig this thread up, it's from June 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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