What ever next

[rob90]

I tend to agree wit you, cameras out side schools yes but just last week there was a case of a bloke prosecuted for doing i thing 37 mph in a zone with out any speed signs, the camera was sandwiched between to 40 mph zones which were signed he was soposed to know it was a 30 zone because of the spacing of the lamp posts you couldnt make it up but true.

with regard to the packaging and manufactures its quite simple they will not wear it like you say they will wriggle out of it where as joe puplic will just say ok here is some more money

We are the easy option

And yes its up to us but dont hold youre breath

[Projectblue]

I tend to agree wit you, cameras out side schools yes but just last week there was a case of a bloke prosecuted for doing i thing 37 mph in a zone with out any speed signs, the camera was sandwiched between to 40 mph zones which were signed he was soposed to know it was a 30 zone because of the spacing of the lamp posts you couldnt make it up but true.

Easy this. Speed limit in a built up area is 30mph unless posted otherwise. No signs telling you what speed? Lamposts to hang the signs off if there were any? Then it's 30. I'm not condoning speed cameras or speeding, but if you drive a car you should know the rules.

[nas90]

Enter your Reg to see if you pass the Emissions:

http://lezlondon.tfl.gov.uk/lez/vehicles/default.aspx

Just plugged the Nas into the web site and...................

04/02/2008 Not subject to LEZ Further info

04/10/2010 Non-compliant Further info

Rather strange for a 3900cc V8 Petrol Defender from first date of registration.

However, Land Rover first registered my vehicle as a 3528cc Diesel on 01/08/1995

Bu**er

Never did like London............

[western]

Just chucked my 200Tdi engined 1989 110's reg in & got this out ------------------

Not subject to LEZ - Based on the information you have entered and information held by Transport for London (TfL), the Low Emission Zone (LEZ) does not apply to this vehicle. As long as the vehicle remains not subject to the LEZ the daily charge does not have to be paid for this vehicle when it is used in the Zone.

Emissions classification for these dates is based on the Vehicle Type and the age of the vehicle

[Turbocharger]

Personally, I support the LEZ, congestion charge etc. There's no need for most people to drive into the centre of London and there are still plenty of ways to get where you're going. If you don't like the Tube or the (most heavily subsidised in Europe) bus service and you absolutely have to drive, drive in before 7am.

I live on the boundary of the CCZ and get resident's discount, £4 a week in a 1984 Ninety. I haven't paid it yet, there's nowhere inside the zone that I can't get to more quickly on the Tube.

I'm on the cusp of deciding between two jobs, in London or in the West Country. London's not as nice to live in but it's half as much money again as working in Weston-Super-Merde and I want to buy a house in the next five years. Genuinely tough call...

John (with absolutely no vested interest in public transport, oh no)

[disco tony]

Personally, I support the LEZ, congestion charge etc. There's no need for most people to drive into the centre of London and there are still plenty of ways to get where you're going. If you don't like the Tube or the (most heavily subsidised in Europe) bus service and you absolutely have to drive, drive in before 7am.

I live on the boundary of the CCZ and get resident's discount, £4 a week in a 1984 Ninety. I haven't paid it yet, there's nowhere inside the zone that I can't get to more quickly on the Tube.

I'm on the cusp of deciding between two jobs, in London or in the West Country. London's not as nice to live in but it's half as much money again as working in Weston-Super-Merde and I want to buy a house in the next five years. Genuinely tough call...

John (with absolutely no vested interest in public transport, oh no)

Come on downe yer, tis gert lush round yer snow!!

(or, come to the west country, its very nice you know, and there aint no stupid congestion charges neiver!!)

[Yoyodyne]

Just logged into the LEZ site. My car is a 1986 Range Rover with a noisy, evil smelling 2.8 Daihatsu lump.

Looked for Range Rover - not there

Tried Land Rover - not there either

Eventually found it under Rover!

Guess what ... "Not subject to LEZ - Based on the information you have entered and information held by Transport for London (TfL), the Low Emission Zone (LEZ) does not apply to this vehicle"

Wasn't thinking of going but I might now!

[conspiracy mode] could it possibly be a ruse to deter us from staging a mass rally to protest about the closure of lanes under the NERC bill?[/conspiracy mode]

[Chris123]

Hmmm... just entered the details of the cars here into the system, and all of 'em are exempt

Have 3 series vehicles, the two which are diesel are pre '72 so they're safe.

Range Rover classic is safe with it's V8

And a 2.5TD volvo s80 (1998) is also safe.

That's gotta be some of the most polluting vehicles around, and they're all exempt! So how's that work then?

[gazelle]

Personally, I support the LEZ, congestion charge etc. There's no need for most people to drive into the centre of London and there are still plenty of ways to get where you're going. If you don't like the Tube or the (most heavily subsidised in Europe) bus service and you absolutely have to drive, drive in before 7am.

I live on the boundary of the CCZ and get resident's discount, £4 a week in a 1984 Ninety. I haven't paid it yet, there's nowhere inside the zone that I can't get to more quickly on the Tube.

To keep a Diesel Landrover where you live will cost you £100 per day just to keep it stationary. Even if it is not running and is parked within the zone it will be subject to the charge!!! There is no charging time like to CCZ. It seems to be 24 hours a day from Midnight to Midnight.

see this link

The zone extends all the way out nearly to the M25. See the map of the LEZ.

So Red Ken is penalising ownership of these vehicles, even if they are not moved. This must be wrong!

[dottythe90]

Just chucked my 200Tdi engined 1989 110's reg in & got this out ------------------

Not subject to LEZ - Based on the information you have entered and information held by Transport for London (TfL), the Low Emission Zone (LEZ) does not apply to this vehicle. As long as the vehicle remains not subject to the LEZ the daily charge does not have to be paid for this vehicle when it is used in the Zone.

Emissions classification for these dates is based on the Vehicle Type and the age of the vehicle

That database is seriously flawed - gawd help us if they use it as the baseline for charging in 2010.

Put in our 2 vehicles - 2001 Td5 Defender - charge applies from 2010, 2003 Td5 Disco - exempt. Same engine, same particulates, different status. I thought all Td5's were Euro III compliant, thats why they replaced the 300Tdi ???

[Se7enUp]

Turbocharger

Personally, I support the LEZ, congestion charge etc. There's no need for most people to drive into the centre of London and there are still plenty of ways to get where you're going. If you don't like the Tube or the (most heavily subsidised in Europe) bus service and you absolutely have to drive, drive in before 7am.

Are you aware of the area covered by the LEZ?

It's not just the centre of London - it's all of greater London!

Basically if you own a pre 2001 diesel Landrover and live anywhere within the M25, from 2010 it's going to cost you £100 per day to keep it on the road!

[tonyalbers]

Ehh.. It doesn't even accept a Danish VRM for some reason (DT 67 226), although you can choose Denmark as registration country...

Well, as far as i can see, this cr*p even applies to tourist's vehicles..

Not very funny at all.

/tony

[disco tony]

this comes off the website (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez)

Which vehicles will be affected?

Those that cause the greatest amount of pollution – generally heavy vehicles with diesel-engines.

There will be a phased introduction of the Low Emission Zone (LEZ) scheme from February 2008 through to January 2012.

Initially the scheme will focus on lorries, buses and coaches: it will be extended in October 2010 to heavier vans and minibuses.

The scheme does not apply to cars or motorcycles.

Are we reading too much into all this?

[JSG]

Well, reading the blurb which I've quoted below -

The Low Emission Zone (LEZ) will affect older, diesel-engined lorries,

buses, coaches, large vans (exceeding 1.205 tonnes unladen weight)

and minibuses (over 8 seats and below 5 tonnes). It will also include

other specialist vehicles that are derived from lorries and vans

including: motorised horseboxes; breakdown and recovery vehicles;

refuse collection vehicles; gritters; road sweepers; concrete mixers;

tippers; removals lorries; and fire engines. Motor caravans, ambulances

and large hearses (over 2.5 tonnes) are also included. The LEZ applies

to all such vehicles, irrespective of whether they are used for

commercial or private use.

Some operators will need to register their vehicles with Transport for

London (TfL) including those eligible for a 100% discount. A limited

number of vehicles will be exempt. See page 19 for details.

Cars, motorcycles and small vans (under 1.205 tonnes unladen weight)

are not included in the LEZ.

it may not affect all Defenders etc. The sticky point will be 110s with over 8 seats - the same loophole that allows them to be exempt from the congestion charge is likely to be the problem here as they were classed as minibuses.

As for 'van derived cars' IIRC this only counts if it shows as such on your registration document - a bloke I was at college with had a Fiesta that had been converted with side windows and showed up as being van derived.

Both my 110s have been shown as Estate Car on the V5 - and the Series was just a 'Utility' I think.

It looks as though there is a lot to do if they are going to get this off the ground - how much time and money will it take to fit cameras at every road going into the zone?

[mike4444244]

"It looks as though there is a lot to do if they are going to get this off the ground - how much time and money will it take to fit cameras at every road going into the zone?"

a lot more time and money than it will take for people to use their large polluting vehicle to remove them

[Holyzeus]

this comes off the website (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez)

Which vehicles will be affected?

Those that cause the greatest amount of pollution – generally heavy vehicles with diesel-engines.

There will be a phased introduction of the Low Emission Zone (LEZ) scheme from February 2008 through to January 2012.

Initially the scheme will focus on lorries, buses and coaches: it will be extended in October 2010 to heavier vans and minibuses.

The scheme does not apply to cars or motorcycles.

Are we reading too much into all this?

Erm no, in oct 2010 its extended to heavy vans and minibuses so how comes my 90 will be banned!!! its neither, i emailed them sunday evening they say you get a reply within 48 hrs no reply yet.......

[headhunter]

What about London's Black Cabs?

Don't the older ones (growlers) run on Land Rover engines similar to British Leyland LDV etc.

[Happyoldgit]

What about London's Black Cabs?

Don't the older ones (growlers) run on Land Rover engines similar to British Leyland LDV etc.

To remain in service FX4's (not too many of them left) and later Fairways (FX4 shape but with Nissan 2.7 lump and disc brakes), Metrocabs, TX1's etc have to be modified to meet new emmissions standards.

[Turbocharger]

Yes, I understand the ideas and the reasons behind them. I do have concerns about the knock-on price of goods but I support the idea. I just can't see how it's sustainable to allow everyone in this crowded city to each have a big car, and incentive schemes don't give the quick turnaround and results that a four or five year democratic system demands.

[JSG]

I was talking to a chap at work about this yesterday - he has a mate who runs a garden nursery business outside the zone. They deliver to three customers inside and have said they will decline that business as it's not cost effective to replace or upgrade their trucks. I can see businesses in the zone being hit.

Also, reading the blurb I see Red Ken is suggesting that you look at replacing your fleet with newer models to comply WTF? What about the impact all that would have on the environment? Not to mention the cost.

Nutter.

[Top90]

There is of course a way round all of this.....

A pre-73 109 station wagon.

Historic vehicle so no LEZ, congestion charge or road tax.

Plus as over 9 seats you can drive in plenty of bus lanes too.

Rich

[Coastcard]

Thing that makes me laugh looking at the zone map is that it includes Heathrow.

What irony, the biggest diesel/kerosene burning polluters on the planet.

They should charge £100 per passenger using that place.

As has been said many times above. This has **** all to do with environmental issues.

[gazelle]

Further digging has found the following (hopefully) good news:

I have found two definitive documents on the TFL website;

The Charging Scheme Order and the explanatory note to go with it

Item 12 of the note and Article 4 of the order cover the vehicles to be charged.

The classification of my defender 90 is of type M1 (Item J on the Registration certificate). M1 is not in the list of classifications to be charged. M1 is is defined as

Class M1(a)

A motor vehicle which comprises no more than eight seats in addition to the driver’s seat.

in a document on the Scottish executive website. (found here) As these are European standards, it should be the same elsewhere (I know .... applying common sense to these things is not a good idea!)

So it can be argued that these vehicles are not covered as the Order states:

4.—(1) A relevant vehicle is a vehicle falling within a specified class that is not—

(a) a compliant vehicle; or

(b.) a non-chargeable vehicle.

(2) The classes specified for the purposes of paragraph (1) are Class M2, Class M3, Class N1 subclasses (ii) and (iii), Class N2 and Class N3.

M1 is not mentioned, therefore the TFL website appears to be wrong in the advice it is giving.

Hope this helps clarify. It would be good to find a way of getting a definitive statement.

Ta

Martin

[gazelle]

Bit more digging.

The registration cert (logbook) says type : M1

I called the LEZ people and they confirm that M1 are not covered by the charges.

They did a check on the Defender. It comes up on their system as N1, which is incorrect.

The LEZ people told me the information comes from the DVLA database.

The DVLA people tell me that the information comes from the manufacturer and whatever is on my Registration Certificate is correct.

So .... it a car..... so exempt.

But not in the eyes of TFL.

Any ideas on how we correct this?

Martin

[Holyzeus]

to add fuel to the fire or maybe pi** on it here is the reply i got today

"13th June 2007

Dear Mr Benjamin,

London Low Emission Zone - L1539735 / RH

Thank you for contacting Transport for London (TfL) on 10th June 2007 about the London Low

Emission Zone and the compliance status of your vehicle.

I have checked the compliance status of your vehicle (M903SWY) and can confirm that the

London Low Emission Zone scheme will apply to your vehicle from 4th October 2010 when it

will be non- compliant as it has an emissions class of Pre-Euro. To be compliant with the

scheme it would need to have an emissions class of Euro III.

I understand that you feel that by our descriptions of the vehicles affected, your vehicle does not

fit within our parameters.

The information we hold on your vehicle shows that it is classed as a Light 4x4 Utility Vehicle

with a Gross/Revenue Vehicle Weight (GVW) of 3499 kg (3.499 tonnes). As it is a utility vehicle

and weighs between 1.205 tonnes (unladen weight) and 3.5 tonnes GVW, it has a vehicle

classification of N1 Class (III) van.

This means that it is classed as a van and will therefore be subject to the London Low Emission

Zone.

Our website has information about what your options are for making your vehicle compliant if

you wish to do so.

I hope that this answers your question. I am sorry that I cannot provide a more favourable

answer.

If you have any further questions we will be happy to provide more details if you contact us by

telephoning the London Low Emission Zone Contact Centre on 0845 607 0009, textphone 0207

310 8999, where a member of staff will be happy to assist you or log on to

www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon.

Thank you for contacting Transport for London.

Yours sincerely

Daljit Mahal

Operations Manager

London Low Emission Zone "