andy.cowman Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Hello all I am back playing with the landy after quite a break from it (lots of stuff going on before) and have put in a new alisport intercooler. The drop in repalcement, not full length. I tuned the fuel pump by undoing the 4 screws and carefully removing the diapraghm and pointing the offset bit at the nottom of the plunger more towards the front of the car. First run well it went like a rocket but when you booted it there was some smoke so i have movedt he plunger slightly back towards the normal position. It doesnt feel quite as fast but only a hint of smoke when you boot it now. Its a 1993 200tdi defender, 90000 miles but well serviced and has a new cambelt. There is some smoke if I put it say third at low revs and let it crawl over a speed bump? Now I have read the guide on here and the Dodge thing and am a bit confused / worried about buggering things up so I wanted to ask for some more advice! I think I can reduce the plunger turn slightly more but counter the loss of power by 1cw turn on the power adjustment screw on the back on the pump. Will this remove some of the smoke? (its now plumes of it. Power it and theres a small amount that hardly visible but a black lump at low/no revs in third when it picks up drive) I can Slow the idle down slightly as it sounds a bit fast now using the screw on the side? I read on the dodge guide that there is a smoke adjustment screw located on the top of the pump. apparently on top of the cover that goes over the diagram. I dont think I have this though? Can anyone clear this up for me? Would I benefit from increasing the boost closer to 1bar? or will that knacker the engine?! Advice and suggestions of the best way to do this would be much appreciated. Thanks Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 The power screw will only make a difference at full throttle. The smoke screw should be hidden under a (possibly) metal cover that looks like the top of the boost capsule. Prize this out trying not to damage it and underneath you should see the screw and its 13mm lock nut. I recently had a play around with mine which is admittedly a 300TDi but the pumps are the same and I thought at first I didn't have the smoke screw, but I found it in the location described. HTH Pete. p.s. I managed to wreck the cover on mine as I had to be fairly brutal to remove it so now need a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.cowman Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 Thanks Pete I will have a look tonight for it and take care with it. Its a fairly new fuel pump so I dont want to break it!! Presumably if there is black smoke from the exhaust its not burning all the fuel its getting at some points? Can that cause a problem in the cylinders? I often see diesels accelerated a way with a puff of black smoke. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Yes as far as I know black smoke is unburnt fuel. I believe that to much unburnt fuel can lead to High EGT problems that can cause damage to the exhaust manifold as well as other bits of the engine. I think from reading other threads on here about EGT and tuning the engines that fitting an EGT gauge is a good idea. I am intending to get an EGT gauge for mine before I really start playing around. IIRC an EGT of around 700 deg C as about as high as you want to see on a long up hill drag. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I'll try and get a photo tonight to help visualise where it is. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.cowman Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 Yeh just came across a page about fitting a EGT guage and it looks like a good idea. I will be cautious for the time being I think and ease up on it for the time being to make sure I dont do any damage and play properly once I have a boost gauage and temp guage in. Boost gauges, drill the inlet manifold and run the feed direct to the guage? Or is there a better way?? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 You can see it (and the other adjustments) here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 A good and easy to understand writeup here: Courtesy of fisha on ORRP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 That's how I fitted my boost gauge, although I found I needed to fit a restrictor into the line as the needle was bouncing around a lot a high boost thus making the reading useless (plus made a really annoying buzzing noise). I fabricated the restrictor out of a peice of 4mm copper tube with the end soldered (sp) closed and then drilled a 1mm hole (smallest drill bit i could lay my hands on) in the solder to allow a restricted air flow and then put this in the line from the inlet manifold. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 You can see it (and the other adjustments) here: The problem I had with that image is that I thought I was looking for a push on cap, where as the cap is more like a core plug pressed into the centre of the raised bit and with the amount of muck on that area of my pump it was not obvious where the join was. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.cowman Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 Lars L - That guide was exaclty what i was looking for. Never found that through google!! I was having the same problem as Pete, didnt realise the cap prized up. I thought there would be bolt or something holding it down. I think that mine can have a little less turn on the diapharm, turn the smoke adjust screw anti clockwise to reduce fueling with out boost slightly (removing the smoke when no boost and no revs) and then turn the star wheel clockwise a bit so that more boost equals more fuel. That should result in it not overfuelling when the turbo is not boosting heavily but allow more fuel to match the larger amount of cold air when the turbo is boosting. I think! Phew glad I have some clue what I am doing now!! I will get a boost guage aswell and fit that because I even consider playing with the turbo. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 One thing a found was that when I made some very small adjustments to the fueling I got more boost. I didn't touch the waste gate or the boost feed to it, but I went from having a max of about 1bar to a max of about 1.2 bar just by making some small adjustments to the fuelling. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.cowman Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 Thats interesting, you run a 300tdi which is 1 bar standard isnt it? 200 is .7 so it might increase the boost anyway to 1.bar. Definitly need a gauge. Found them for about £26 so far! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I think (but stand to be corrected) that because mine is Disco auto they should actually run at 1.2bar, and yes mine should have EDC and not a mecahnical pump but being an electronics engineer by training I loath all things electronic in a vehicle designed to get wet and muddy and pulled all the electronics and fitted a mechanical pump. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Smoke at low revs won't worry the EGTs. Boost does not come on until the revs are up and EGTs do not become high until you are on full boost and increase with engine speed. Adjust smoke off boost with the smoke screw. You'll want some smoke IMO to keep the turbo lag down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.cowman Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 Ok had another go and adjusted the lot! I have turned the smoke adjuster 180 degrees Counter Clock Wise to reduce the fuel before the boost comes in. Then I turned back the diapgram a bit to reduce fuel as the boost builds and reduce smoke . Then I turned the star adjustor 90 clockwise to allow the boost to push the spring more and increase fuel with extra air. Will see what the smoke situation is like later! My worry is that it will affect the exhaust manifold. Is this likely when its coupled to a uprated intercooler? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Will see what the smoke situation is like later! My worry is that it will affect the exhaust manifold. Is this likely when its coupled to a uprated intercooler? Andy Certainly.... The intercooler only controls EGT if it is not cooling the air enough. At stock boost levels, the stock instercooler is more than enough. Don't hold your foot to the floor until you get an EGT gauge. Mr. timebomb we'll call you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.cowman Posted June 14, 2007 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 Well I have altered it again now. I set the star nut back to default and dialled the diapragm back so its not far from standard (and well with in the advice of Alisport whose intercooler I have). The smoke screw is adjusted 180 degrees counter clock wise still which should reduce the fuel off boost and redcuce the smoke levels. Driving today there is no smoke now (ocasional puffs which are hardly visible). Now this should mean that the explosion is not stupidly large and that the intercooler is is able to easily cool the air its using as its not straining to provide air to a massively increased fuel supply. Therefore there is no reason for EGT to increase because its actually only supplying slightly more fuel to the engine underboost and that is coupled with a larger intercooler so it should even itself out. Does that make sense? She has run warm for quite a while and heated up a bit when I drove excitably ish, still does it just now heats up at 70mph not 60 - 65!! This was a problem before the new intercooler so I assume its cooling system based. Fluid is fine and no leaks, water pump was replaced recently. Rad is old though and has been through the mud a lot. still does it even after flushing the water across the fins so my guess it the core is in poor order and not able to cool properly when you push it. I have ordered a new radiator which should solve this! Cars.. why do they cost so much money!? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 The exhaust manifold is the least of your problems as it is cast iron - it's the pistons and head that are the worry. I agree about the EGT gauge - I've got one which is actually a aircon controller, ie it makes a switch when a programmed temp is reached. This powers a flashing led and a loud buzzer. I have it set at 725c. If you use a furnace controller you need a 5-pin relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Just to be clear the air supply have nothing to do with the fueling. Air and fuel are independent. It is simply the engine size and the turbo boost levels. Increasing fueling on its own has zero effect on intercooling requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.cowman Posted June 14, 2007 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 but by supplying more fuel (which needs to burn with more air) the explosion is bigger so at full chat more hotter exhaust gases come out with heat everything up? Am I right in saying that? Basically I want to avoid damaging anything and would rather not have the max performance just better than standard. New rad has been ordered and should arrive tomorrow, MM4x4. Seem very professional so far. I left a note asking to be called when they knew it was shipped and with in an hour of placing my order online they called me to say all being well (courier dependent!) it should be with me tomorrow Excellent! I shall flush the cooling system and replace the thermostat at the same time. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Yes, but the flowrate of air is the engine size and the turbo pressure. The maximum turbo pressure is regulated with the wastegate. If you have not changed that, then the flowrate and temperature of the air leaving the turbo is no higher than stock. When you increase fueling the air rate stays the same. The extra fuel is supplying the extra power by itself. In order to add more air, you need to do things to the turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.cowman Posted June 15, 2007 Author Share Posted June 15, 2007 Yes that makes sense, the larger intercooler just means the air is cooler and therefore more dense? Not that there is more of it? I will understand all this eventually! Anyway the truck is at standard tune just with the diapragm advanced towards the front a bit. No smoke and its definitly faster and easier to drive than before. New rad arrives today so the cooling will be fixed and its all good. Then I am sure it will be on to the next problem.... theres always something that needs repairing / replacing. Thanks for all the advice! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 And how do you know it's at standard setting? I'd like to know because I don't know if my pump has been played around with. The big intercooler in the donor vehicle could mean that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy.cowman Posted June 15, 2007 Author Share Posted June 15, 2007 It was a new fuel pump that I put in last year so no one has had a chance to mod it. I also marked the starting point of each bit I altered. You look for signs that yours has been apart before? That might help tell you if its been altered. Also if you lift the diaphragm out (remember how it was!) and see where the larger bit on the bottom is facing. Mine was basically pointing towards the block of the engine and Alisport have told me to move it towards to front to up the fueling for the intercooler. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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