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8274 improvements


Lewis
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I'm not really into 8274's much prefering the older 8074 and bellveiw winches

However i had enough peices lying around to make an 8274 so I though I would have a go at improving it along the same line as Gigglepin etc, but on a budget of £zero

Here follows my attempts

12inch drum

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Basically its a cut and shut with an extra ~3.5inches added in

It is waisted because thats what material we had.

The 80mm od solid bar was turned down to 78mm ish to make it a (50tonne) press fit into both ends of the drum, it was tacked then drilled in 8 places through the drum and into the bar, then plug welded with 300amps of Migatronic lovelyness on "spray" setting. Tacks were then ground back and seamed around the circumfrence of the joins. The seams were then linished to within an inch of their lives

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Mmmm penetration :)

Mainshaft circlip replacement

I wanted to cap the mainshaft to alleiviate my circlip fears so I drilled the shaft out to M6 tapping size with a carbide drill, however no HSS tap would touch it. Having taken a good look at the Gigglepin shaft I decided that M8 would be better as I also had M8 tapping carbide drills and machine taps. Result: One dead drill and an extremely blunt tap

At work we had some super duper unobtanium taps for 60 rockwell steels but only in M12 and larger so it was time to take it out to M12 tapping size, result: one dead 10mm carbide tip drill and a chipped tap

It was time to give up on plan A

Plan B was to drill sideways through the shaft to allow a split pin or rollpin to be used to retain the brake assy. Once again no drill I had would dent it so it went onto the CNC Miller at work and had the "Miracle Cutter" treatment, these cutters are £87 a time and deservedly so - they will 3D cut 60 rockwell. Result - one snapped miracle cutter as it broke through the hole in the middle and another blunted to finish the job

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This stuff is seriously hard :o

Drum guard

I made a cardboard template of the support component then roughed it out

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Then rolled some 3mm alluminium to the profile of the drum support

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Fully welded

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Fitted

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I can make these drum gaurds to suit any width of drum, in either steel of alluminium, PM me if anyone wants one

Total cost to me for the above modifications - £zero

Let the critisisms begin

Lewis :)

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Thats your mainshaft as well Tony, it now owes me around £230 in drills taps and cutters :angry:

The paint is Vauxhall Steel gray metallic something, I can find out for sure if you want to know. It was etch primed, painted then cooked at 30degC for 1 hour

Lewis :)

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Nice job,i tried drilling my mainshaft a few weeks ago but gave up after 5 mins and several sh*gged drill bits :angry: .My plan was to drill the end of the shaft and tap it then fit a turned down sleeve but your idea looks better :huh:

Paul ;)

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Not bad (for a consumable fuse :ph34r: )

Don't like the idea of the split pin in shear though, iwould prefere to see a hardened roll pin in it's place or maybe a machined up pin of some description,

The backguard looks a little low, and possibly a little weedy (but i am of the tank armur school of thought :lol: )

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Not bad (for a consumable fuse :ph34r: )

P*ss off you! Just cus you've been to Russia doesnt change the fact that your car also has 2 of said consumable fuses fitted :lol:

Don't like the idea of the split pin in shear though, iwould prefere to see a hardened roll pin in it's place or maybe a machined up pin of some description,

The backguard looks a little low, and possibly a little weedy (but i am of the tank armur school of thought :lol: )

The split pin is a tempory measure to see if it works or not, you will also notice I have no motor fitted. I have a 6mm roll pin ready to fit if all seems okay, I also have a length of 6mm od silver steel that could be used - so there!

The backguard is probably a little low, and a little weedy, but my backguard only has to fend off 11mm plasma, not the elevator cable you are so enamoured with ;)

Nice job,i tried drilling my mainshaft a few weeks ago but gave up after 5 mins and several sh*gged drill bits :angry: .My plan was to drill the end of the shaft and tap it then fit a turned down sleeve but your idea looks better :huh:

Paul ;)

One of my plans when discovering that the shaft was uber hard was to turn up a slug that could be pressed and loctited into the shaft then drill and tap that. However I thought the only way I would be sure that it would hold would be to heat the shaft to cherry red before pressing in the slug to ensure a good interference fit, by that time though you may as well have anealed the shaft, drilled and tapped it then heat treated it again, something which I wanted to avoid

Lewis :)

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Looks good & no budget :)

Can i do mine & borrow the £50Ks worth of machines etc & if you have got some Ali for free ill have that as well !!!

It was like watching American Home improvement programmes

"today we will make a table"

"1st lets go to the CNC machine & run up some American Oak we found in the garden"

Sorry to be critical but its hardly a home DIY cheap option for 90% of people. :ph34r:

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Looks good & no budget :)

Can i do mine & borrow the £50Ks worth of machines etc & if you have got some Ali for free ill have that as well !!!

It was like watching American Home improvement programmes

"today we will make a table"

"1st lets go to the CNC machine & run up some American Oak we found in the garden"

Sorry to be critical but its hardly a home DIY cheap option for 90% of people. :ph34r:

Indeed Pete.

Perhaps this thread should be moved to the "Look what I managed to steal from work Today and haven't been sacked yet" forum? :D

Tid

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Indeed Pete.

Perhaps this thread should be moved to the "Look what I managed to steal from work Today and haven't been sacked yet" forum? :D

Tid

You obviously, have either no sense of humour or work for a company that feels the need to monitor you too closley for you to to get on with sidejobs.

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Looks good & no budget :)

Can i do mine & borrow the £50Ks worth of machines etc & if you have got some Ali for free ill have that as well !!!

Sorry to be critical but its hardly a home DIY cheap option for 90% of people. :ph34r:

Only £50k? Didnt you want to use the CNC miller then? :)

Critisism is good, I was just showing that you dont always have to spend out when you use a little bit of thought, most people everyone I know has/had/or can get miller/lathe access - even going to a small engineering firm to get the drum slug turned and pressed as a cash job would cost far less than the £200 Gigglepin charge for an extended drum

Perhaps this thread should be moved to the "Look what I managed to steal from work Today and haven't been sacked yet" forum? :D

I take offence at being called a thief

My time is my own, my tools were paid for by myself, the winch and all parts were bought legally, mostly from members of this forum. The parts of it that were produced at my place of work were done during breaks and downtime by myself or colleages - and we are encouraged to make use of the facilities by the management

I shall thank you not to make judgements in future

Lewis

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Let the critisisms begin

Lewis :)

Hi Lewis.....it's looks like you opened the door there Buddy!

I used to do the same when I was engineering so I can't comment. Some companies would take offence to using machines and materials for 'homers'.....luckily your's doesn't.... so take advantage of it.....I know I would.

Nice job btw.....I always say that if I can do the job myself rather than pay for it...go for it.

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Lewis, why did you put the drum extension in the middle? I would have thought putting it at one end, probably end plate end, would be preferential for stress and load purposes although not as aesthetically pleasing.

You want to ‘Gigglepin’ your winch “on a budget of £zero” and then proceed to consume £230 in tooling albeit someone else’s, obtain aluminium sheet and have access to aluminium welding with a little turning thrown in for good measure!

You are a very fortunate lad with an employer who makes the above available.

An employee of mine is in for a good kicking on Monday after he failed to attach a trailer emergency brake cable which endured 150 miles of tarmac and now needs replacing.

Spare a thought for the pen pushers and keyboard monkeys whose employer can only manage a couple of paper clips.

Back to your winch, it’s looking good, have you considered a bearing in the endplate?

I’m not sure of the purpose of the drum guard unless you are intending to use steel cable?

It does however serve to tie in the endplate to the main housing preventing it pushing away.

Any plans on a twin motor set-up?

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Paul, I'm not especially trying to emulate Gigglepins product range in particular, just that some of their lines coincide with what I wanted to do

Mostly I'm trying to learn from what others have failed with - I am new to winches, large tyres, lockers and suspension travel, and all too often it becomes easy to forget that so many folks have been doing this for years. My inspiration comes from people like yourself, Lee Bond, Simon Buck, Steve Lloyde (well his car anyway), Butplug, Dan Furniss, and even Jim Marsden - who whilst most people find him difficult to like, and I dissagree with him on many subjects, I have only found him to be enthusiastic and helpfull on the occaisions I have spoken to him.

Back to the winch:

The drumguard is kinda there because I could make it o why not - I do want to have the ability to run steel for hard wearing sites like Kirton, but mostly will be using plasma12. However the 3mm ally used to the make guard wouldnt stand up to much wear from steel rope when bunching on side pulls so Its almost useless at present. I think gen2 will see it produced from 2mm steel and incorporate some kind of motor support or brace

The drum extension, I'm not really sure why its in the middle - its just where I started cutting I guess. There is so much steel in the drum now that it almost becomes a solid bar, I do not fear for its survival. Given more time and some 2" od bar then I would have made a completely new drum, like your own. Some advice on this would be greatly appreciated - When you built your drum did you cut the spline drive from the drum end then bore a recess into the spline drive to receive the 2" bar? - if so does your drum rely on the seam weld for its strength and drive or have you plug welded it on the bearing face of the spline drive?

A bearing in the end plate would be nice, but this winch was only ever meant to be a tempory fix whilst an 8074 hybrid thing is built. If I were putting a bearing in the end support I would probably consider cutting out the winch casing around the bottom gear and welding in some billet that had been machined to take a large bearing, no point doing one end if the other still runs in that horrible plastic bushing

Myself and a friend did look into a twin motor top housing but both of our attempts were utter failures - the first suffered problems with gear contact - mismatched motors caused the input gears to climb off the teeth resulting in a fairly good impersonation of a frag grenade. We moved the motor shafts closer to the top shaft but this killed the bearings almost instantly. I would love to spend an hour pouring over a Gigglepin twin motor housing, preferably the older prototypes that were using the Warn housings as donors

A marshal at my local pay and play site has built his own twin motor setup so I must check that out at some point also

Ideally I would like to build a double gearbox winch with a 2' wide 2" drum dia drum, but the failures and successes of Andy Chaplin and Steve Lloyde force me to shy away from using 8274 parts for this purpose

About my job/my attitude/this thread:

One point i wish to make clear - a major portion of the tooling cost will be covered by me - I only included the details of the tooling breakages as a point of reference for other people who may be considering the same modifications. I was also trying to show that whilst I had initially thought "Why should I pay for something I can do myself" - I would in fact be far better off now if I had just gone out and bought a replacement Mainshaft

I didnt think I was fortunate to be in the position I'm in with my job etc - a lot of people on this forum have more skills and equipment than I could ever hope to accumulate - but having seen the reaction to this thread I'm beginning to alter my outlook.

From another point of view I could also say that if I, a 21yr old kid with no money and very little practical experience of offroading and its requirements, or engineering in general, can do this/get this done then why cant everyone? It all comes down to if you want something bad enough you will find a way to get it, whether that means you work overtime to pay for an off the shelf solution or you spend that same time having a go yourself, its all good.

Also I want to make clear that I'm not trying to prove that making stuff yourself is better than buying it, I only started this thread because I enjoy reading similar threads and so assumed someone might enjoy this one.

Apologies for the essay

Lewis :)

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From another point of view I could also say that if I, a 21yr old kid with no money and very little practical experience of offroading and its requirements, or engineering in general, can do this/get this done then why cant everyone? It all comes down to if you want something bad enough you will find a way to get it, whether that means you work overtime to pay for an off the shelf solution or you spend that same time having a go yourself, its all good.

Also I want to make clear that I'm not trying to prove that making stuff yourself is better than buying it, I only started this thread because I enjoy reading similar threads and so assumed someone might enjoy this one.

that works for me - mondo respect :)

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I take offence at being called a thief

My time is my own, my tools were paid for by myself, the winch and all parts were bought legally, mostly from members of this forum. The parts of it that were produced at my place of work were done during breaks and downtime by myself or colleages - and we are encouraged to make use of the facilities by the management

I shall thank you not to make judgements in future

Lewis

Lewis,

I am sincerely sorry that I have offended you. You do lay yourself wide open for it though, as you begin by stating this is a zero budget job then proceed to destroy several hundred quid's worth of someone elses (by your own admission) tools in the process. I can only assume your management work on the principle of "practice makes perfect" :rolleyes:

I must learn to keep my mouth shut in future as I OBVIOUSLY have no sense of humour! ;)

Enjoy it while you can.

Tid

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Looks good & no budget :)

Can i do mine & borrow the £50Ks worth of machines etc & if you have got some Ali for free ill have that as well !!!

It was like watching American Home improvement programmes

"today we will make a table"

"1st lets go to the CNC machine & run up some American Oak we found in the garden"

Sorry to be critical but its hardly a home DIY cheap option for 90% of people. :ph34r:

I think I tend to disagree.

Very very many things can be made as simple DIY projects, provided that one has some knowledge of the materials and engineering procedures..

Tuning a piece of rund bar on a lathe is fairly simple work. Even aquiring a lathe does not nessasarily mean spending a lot of money.... If one is truly determined even making a lathe from scratch is not impossible...!

Drilling the shafts as described is done with professional and expensive equipment, but that does not mean these processes are impossible to duplicate in an ordinary DIY context. For drilling the extreme hard shaft one could use masonry drills in an ordinary drill press. (The principle of using masonry drills in steel is that the friction heat produced slowly weakens the hardening, but in a more localizised way than heating the whole shaft with a torch. I Cross-drilled a transfer input gear for my gearbox this way, before I aquired a full set of titanium-nitride drill bits (which will cut Rockwell 60 all day long...)

Folding the aluminium sheet can be done over a piece of tube in an ordinary vice. No problems there. Welding aluminium is best done with a TIG, but there is nothing preventing you from welding alu with a ordinary MIG-MAG setup. Use argon shield gas, buy a new siliconizised inner liner and a oversize tip, then you're ready to rock. (Though this technique requires training, and LOTS of it)

The good and informative writeup Lewis has made contains many interresting ideas. Whether or not the individual reading this writeup has access to the same kind of tools is not that really important - the good thing about such a writeup is the sharing of ideas. How a person who reads the information is going to convert these ideas to physical implementations is dependent on that particular persons knowledge, expirience and will to overcome problems.

Willpower and sheer determination are the really important things. With a little out-of-the-box thinking and a good working knowledge of materials and engineering not many problems will stop you for long.

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I am sincerely sorry that I have offended you.

Sorry , I kinda flew off the handle there

You do lay yourself wide open for it though, as you begin by stating this is a zero budget job then proceed to destroy several hundred quid's worth of someone elses (by your own admission) tools in the process. I can only assume your management work on the principle of "practice makes perfect" :rolleyes:

The only tools not owned by me that were damaged were the 2x miracle cutters, and the 1 super-tap - which was reground again. Okay the miracle cutters were not mine, nor will I be paying for replacements.

But that still makes my budget £zero - example: when you buy a suspension lift kit do you include in its cost the price of all your tools used to fit it? No, a £200 lift kit remains a £200 lift kit regardless of how much the tooling cost. Same goes for my winch

I struggle to imagine a job or workplace where foreigners do not get undertaken, I find the very idea abhorrent :D I guess I must just be lucky

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Who cares what it cost or didn't - IMHO it's the idea/engineering that counts, even if it's just so that others can read it and decide NOT to knacker their expensive cutters trying the same thing :P

I don't really care if something has been made for 10p in a shed or CNC machined from unobtanium for a million dollars as long as it contains some sort of original thought or engineering interest.

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