** MegaSquirting a V8 - "Basics of How to" ... The A-Z Saga

[red90 driver]

39 pages of info, some of which is relevant, some of which is'nt. Like looking for a needle in an SU graveyard!

The donor vehicle is not here, so I can't have a look very easily.

did'nt see see a base map, will have another look!

[waxen]

39 pages of info, some of which is relevant, some of which is'nt. Like looking for a needle in an SU graveyard!

The donor vehicle is not here, so I can't have a look very easily.

did'nt see see a base map, will have another look!

This might help Mega Index

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Red90 - I find it a little hard to find everything in this thread, so I created this: MegaIndex

It isn't quite complete, next time I have trouble sleeping I'll finish it off.

[red90 driver]

Now that makes life a little easier!

saves getting shouted at by Fridge Freezer!

The boot was on the other foot then as we always tell our dealers engineers to 'Read The F******g Manual' before asking stupid questions! .

I did spend about 4 hours on the proper megasquirt forum, and answered most of my questions, but ended up getting sidetracked onto other interesting bits!!!

[tarmacshredder]

Update time as I haven't posted for a while.

Since my last post I sent my ecu to Nige who reinstalled the firmware and put his map on and tried on his landy. To my amazement it fired up and ran straight away, went all the way through the warmup sequence and no issues so that blew my idea out of the water that there was something wrong inside the ecu. He then put my map back on and the his landy started and ran although a bit rough as was expected with Nige's V8 monster.

So as I have had it running on the Lucas with all the same injectors, fuel rail it rulled that out, using the same throttle tps so rulled that out so I thought must be something to do with the VR sensor or wiring. Got another length of cable and was ready to tackle with soldering iron.

Plugged ecu back in, turned key and after 2-3 cranks engine fired up ran on all 8 for 2-3 seconds then stopped. Turned key again engine started and ran for 4-5 seconds then stopped. Turned key and engine started and ran bit lump and very low rpm. As it warmed up the rpm increased and it got smoother. Whilst warming up very difficult to pickup the revs with the accelerator, it would stumble and splutter and revs drop. Once warm the pickup was much better but still a noticable dip when initially pressing the pedal.

Next lowered the rpm a bit on the throttle body by reducing the throttle stop. tweaked the spark trim to try to find the optimum running by ear.

Drained engine oil and large quantity of petrol that was in sump from all the previous months worth of tring to get it to run, refilled engine oil.

started again no problem when warm, starts without doing the 2-3 cranks first, adjusted the fuel table cells that it was moving around as per megasquirt manual to lower the map pressure at idle to optimise. Adjusted throttle stop again.

So I now have a land rover that starts but I have done nothing different to a month ago when I last tried to get it to start, I have had it running and wiggled and pulled on wires with no avail trying to get it to stop. When cold it does the 2 second run, 4-5 second run etc. so I still have issues with the warmup, has anyone else had the same problems? although I have tried altering the values in the warmup table what advice do you have?

Lastly well done to James I wish all that information was in one place when I started and in a format that is so usable and easy to find.

Glenn

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Thanks Glenn. Glad you've got it running at last. If you have a look in the MegaIndex you will find a link to Nige's explanation of tuning warmup and ASE etc. Very helpful and very easy to follow.

edit: Linked again as on a new page.

[FridgeFreezer]

It's entirely possible to get a Rover V8 upset to the point of running awfully or even not starting at all just by fouling the plugs, so repeated "test firings" can be detrimental if the fuel map or settings aren't quite there. You can then run into the situation where the Flapper setup just does the same thing it always does (because it's settings are roughly correct) whereas an untuned MS install will run rough and lead to further head scratching etc.

Cranking / warmup and cold start are absolute b*ggers to tune because you're racing against the engine warming up, so you only get one shot per day. My settings are very vague, probably totally off but it starts & runs OK even without an idle valve.

Can I suggest to the mods that James' excellent MegaIndex is pasted in BIG LETTERS at the top of this thread (Post #1) to help newbies avoid grumpy barstewards like me

[trayback100]

It's entirely possible to get a Rover V8 upset to the point of running awfully or even not starting at all just by fouling the plugs, so repeated "test firings" can be detrimental if the fuel map or settings aren't quite there. You can then run into the situation where the Flapper setup just does the same thing it always does (because it's settings are roughly correct) whereas an untuned MS install will run rough and lead to further head scratching etc.

Cranking / warmup and cold start are absolute b*ggers to tune because you're racing against the engine warming up, so you only get one shot per day. My settings are very vague, probably totally off but it starts & runs OK even without an idle valve.

Can I suggest to the mods that James' excellent MegaIndex is pasted in BIG LETTERS at the top of this thread (Post #1) to help newbies avoid grumpy barstewards like me

[Belgian_Dude]

Hi all,

Be careful, the topic had slipped to halfway the second page of the listing

So I'll shoot a question your way and put the topic back where it belongs ; I've got to choose a location for my Lambda probe, and am pondering the pro's and cons of the various options;

Setup is a std Range Classic 3.5 exhaust, zo 4 into 2 manifold, 2 into 1 downpipes, 2 into 1 Y-pipe.

Now, in theory, it shouldn't matter how far or how close to the exhaust valves I put the valve, correct? But in practice, further away means more connections between exhaust pieces, and I would like to minimize this number connections between of different exhaust pieces before the sensor, as these are more likely to leak than pieces of continuous pipe and thus could lead to erroneous readings.

But, and here comes the question, how many cilinders do I want it to read? I've basically got the choice between:

1) reading 2 cilinders (in one of the double-tube downpipe's tubes, one connection before sensor),

2) reading 4 cilinders (at the end of the downpipe where they've already joined to one pipe, one connection before sensor),

3) reading 4 cilinders (in one side of the Y-pipe, two connections before sensor but not any more cilinders than previous choice so this is the least favorable choice),

4) reading all 8 cilinders (in the Y-pipe after joining of both sides)

Who's got arguments for reading more or less cilinders?

I would logically go for option 2, as offers the most cilinders per exhaust joints ...

(bonus question: left or right bank of cilinders ? )

cheers,

Quentin

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Option 4

...The end

Nige

[FridgeFreezer]

Mine is option 4.

[Belgian_Dude]

Glad I asked then

All 8 it is.

Cheers guys!

Quentin

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Now I'm happy I've got a good state of tune into my 3.5, I thought I'd stick my VE table and MSQ in here.

3.5, High torque cam, flapper injection, EDIS, PWM idle control

Req fuel is 20.0

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Can I suggest to the mods that James' excellent MegaIndex is pasted in BIG LETTERS at the top of this thread (Post #1) to help newbies avoid grumpy barstewards like me

Nige

[ballcock]

Hi quick question what issues have you had with your insurance companies after sqirting? Tom.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Told mine

Noted and no effect,

basically I said it "Replaces" the lucas price of darkness system - they laughed

Nige

[bobtail84]

I put it on the modified vehicle report and was told "no problem".

[V8 EFI]

Hello,

First of all, i'm Frederik living in the north of the Netherlands owner of a 3.5 V8 RR which i trying to megasquirt.

Thanks to a lot of support from Extraefi (and this saga!) i've managed to get this far but i'm a little stuck now

With the ms1 in place i installed Tunerstudio and the troubles began, it started with some resets and ended with a firmware mismatch. My guess is i've installed something wrong ?.

Because i became i little bit confused about all the ini and s19 files in Megatune and Tunerstudio i decided to start allover and keep it this time as simple as possible.

- Will installing only Tunerstudio (without Megatune) give a problem ?

- Where to put the ini files, i've read mydocuments/tunerstudio/car1 .. ok, but why is there a project map in de Tunerstudio with also an inc directory ?

- Are there any other things in to keep in mind with Tunerstudio ?.

Maybe these are stupid questions but getting rit Lucas is a start to wisedom !.

I hope this is the right place to ask, otherwise the mod could place it there where it belongs?.

Thanks, Frederik

[bobtail84]

Hello,

With the ms1 in place i installed Tunerstudio and the troubles began, it started with some resets and ended with a firmware mismatch. My guess is i've installed something wrong ?.

Because i became i little bit confused about all the ini and s19 files in Megatune and Tunerstudio i decided to start allover and keep it this time as simple as possible.

Hi Frederik,

1st thing is well done at MegaSquirting you RV8 it will be worth it in the end...

You need to post up the firmware.. 029v, 029y so the grown ups can point you in the right direction.

- Will installing only Tunerstudio (without Megatune) give a problem ?

No but Tunerstudio is a beta program at the moment so its still being worked on. That said I do prefer TS but you might find it easier to get set-up with megatune the use TS once your up and running.

Where to put the ini files, i've read mydocuments/tunerstudio/car1 .. ok, but why is there a project map in de Tunerstudio with also an inc directory ?

I save mine to desktop in a file called...... MegaSquirt.... and back it up to a memory stick so if it all goes floppy I have all Msq's and firmware saved else were. The project map and other files in TS are examples.

You could have a look here as well. Megaindex

There will be lots of grown-ups along soon to help some more.

Jeff

[V8 EFI]

Thanks Jeff,

Its good to know that there are ms experts willing to share there knowledge

Right now nothing seems to work !.

About my configuration (i've tried to attach the files but i have no permission)

Its a Ms(1)-extra 029Y4, for wasted spark with VW coilpacks and switchable maps for LPG, baro correction and fan output.

Data for the ini files (airdenfactor, matfactor, thermfactor)

; Input Data Temp, degC (Air Temp Thermistor)

; 0 5520

; 20 2500

; 62 525

Input Data Temp, degC (Coolant Thermistor)

; 0 5520

; 20 2500

; 100 200

It's a standard Classic 3.5 V8 EFI with an autobox

Today i've tried to create new ini and s19 files with easytherm and succeded, however when uploading it with hypertrm it continued saying wait... and stopped there. When uploading an other s19 it worked (but with the wrong tables in it).

Why can i not upload the changed s19 file with the new temperature settings?.

Luckally my car drives more or less on an old LPG system right now

Frederik

[FridgeFreezer]

Frederick,

First off I suggest you download & use the .s19 mentioned in this thread:

http://www.fuddymuckers.co.uk/files/ms/msns-extra_029V_RV8.s19

That has had Easytherm done for the Rover coolant sensor. Then you are using exactly the same file as most of us here, known working. Next stop is to download one of the settings (MSQ) files listed in this thread that seems to most suit your engine/setup. Again, the settings should be known good / working so that helps cut down the potential problems.

It is very easy to change settings etc. and stop the thing from working - especially with the different options for spark/trigger wheel etc.

Your biggest problem will be getting the spark settings right as it seems you are running a trigger wheel / VR sensor and driving coils directly from the ECU itself. This is probably the cause of the resets due to interference from the high-current coil drivers with the sensitive CPU in the MS. ExtraEFI usually add a second connector for coils, hopefully this is the case for you. All of the ground wires must be attached and be a good connection or you will get problems.

There are a lot of things to trip you up with direct coil drive, which is why most of us run EDIS8. You need to be sure of the missing tooth position (timing), the VR sensor polarity, the tuning of the VR circuit (R52/R56 on the board), dwell times, polarity, etc. etc...

[patch1]

Hi, a slight of topic question but here goes.

Is it possible to set an output on ether Megajolt or squirt to become active at a cirtin engine load. The reason for asking is I want this to control a set of relays to switch some of the fuel injectors off on a V8 when only light throttle or engine loads are present like cruising at speed.

Any thoughts has it been done.

Mark

[FridgeFreezer]

Yes that's easy done using the outputs, however it's even easier done using the overrun fuel cut settings which will stop firing the injectors automatically based on those criteria

[V8 EFI]

Many thanks, it seems to work

I've downloaded the 29V zip file and a matching msq, i dont know if it will stay this way but its alive !.

In Megatune you have to configure the code your using (set or unset "Phill Ringwood msns extra code" in my case). Do i have to do this also with Tunerstudio and if so where can i find it ?.

At the moment i'm driving without any coils and injectors connected (and no lambda correction). The vacuum reading is still a bit low, but my fresh air valve in my dashboard is'nt working so maybe there is a leak in the hose to it.

How low should i aspect from my V8 ?.

About the coils, i've already bought them however if i cant get them going i might consider buying Edis8 anyway.

The ecu is configured with a spark output switching on low (5 volt down to zero), i dont know of Edis will work with this configuration ?.

So many questons, i know its ment to be educational but i'm feeling like a 3years old now

Frederik.

[Belgian_Dude]

Oh by the way, mine runs

Been kinda very effing busy, pulled out the whole flapper cable loom last weekend, fired it up first time (successfully) this morning

(that's after I corrected trigger wheel placement and coil lead layout after a non-starter yesterday 11PM)

Runs like ****, way rich, but haven't had any time to tune, just drove it out a couple of k's to our Team Presentation today

So, if anyone were to have a fuel & spark map for a bog standard 3,5 efi I could download, it'd be greatly appreciated, don't have any time today to make / modify one myself, and this would enable me to properly drive it home late tonight and get properly tuning tomorrow ;-)

Next up after tuning will be properly protect and insulate cable loom, and add the LPG part of things ...

thx in advance!

Quentin