bailey Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 have it up north but not on the east coast as everywhere else is getting flooded its sunny here.! :ph34r: :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ3120 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 there used to be an international 4x4 show at weston park in the midlands, they also have a very very large country fair type thing there annually. weston park is a massive place also be to a 4x4 show at longleat safari park, dring thriugh the tiger enclosure in a white series 3 was fun, as they used to use them to drop the food off for the animals lol. having a show in central england would be fair to most people. having a general 4x4 show would be better Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSG Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Some sensible suggestions here, I agree that the Wycombe show used to be quite good but then that may have been because there were less shows per year at the time. I think a lot of us go for the social aspect of a catch up with friends for a natter and a beer whilst looking at each other's trucks. Its nice to be able to camp in groups as well rather than just meeting up at the beer tent / toilets etc. This is something that ORRP has managed to do quite successfully for the past few years. As for 'north of the Thames' - well a lot of us make it to Billing which is way up north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpb Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 there used to be an international 4x4 show at weston park in the midlands, they also have a very very large country fair type thing there annually.weston park is a massive place This show then moved to Trentham Gardens, but wasn't as good. I will always remember the Mud Run at Weston Park. That was a good watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylandy Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 intresting post this type off show happenend this year at mamby lrshow.com the show is happening again next year they have camping for 3000 units and lots of offroad site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Turner Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 intresting post this type off show happenend this year at mamby lrshow.com the show is happening again next year they have camping for 3000 units and lots of offroad site. Andy, Let's hope they book better weather! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 my thoughts... I've been to a few landy shows... and if we stay for the weekend we tend to get a bit bored.. so lots of activities, various off-road courses, workshops on basic expedition maintenance, or even 'challenge' repairs (getting that CV joint replaced) I'm cocky enough to think i don't need much in the way of lessons, but I know there must be a lot of people out there, new to the scene who would benifit from an hour of what to check prior to heading off into the wilderness.. workshops on survival skills, basic first aid and navigation could be a winner... I'm sure St johns would be able to offer a 2 hour taster on basic first aid... Trade stands. lots of them but don't allow the non-related trash in... but you could open it out to other outdoor sports and pass times, just no crappy kids toys or flowery cussions... I also think the stands should be limited in size, there is no need for the scrapiron racing super store, or safety devices taking up a acre of show space.. Food. Good selection and reasonably priced, i've had some of the worst food around at shows, so vet them before you let them on... security. sort it out properly. Toilets. We are not in a third world country, or recovering from an earthquake, so clean loos are not too much to expect... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 I agree with modt things said above but You do need stuff to keep the kids and wives happy, it just needs to be tempered as to the volume and location. ie About 2 fields away . As for stand size. Just to pick on 2 but for no reason in particular. Gigglepin and Devon4x4. How could you expect Devon to show all their goods in a tent the same size as Gigglepin or vice v ersa if you forced Jim to have a tent the same size as Devon then he would be lost and would do his reputation no good. You have to temper the size of the tents somehow but I'm not sure how. Would you still get the big companies if they only had a small tent to show their wares in? Security is a problem that I don't think you'll solve without spending HUGE amounts of money. And then there are still no guarantees. Again with toilets, a bit of courtesy is needed as well. All well and good complaining but if you have to much to drink and make a mess have the courtesy to clean it up or get some one to do it for you. If you've been ill you know you've been ill and should do something about it to lesson the impact on other users. The ultimate show is like marmite. Some love it but others will always find something to complain about. Just my tuppence worth. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 loath adj. 'unwilling' loathe vb. 'to feel strong hatred or disgust for' Collins English Dictionary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 loath adj. 'unwilling'loathe vb. 'to feel strong hatred or disgust for' Collins English Dictionary ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Toilets.We are not in a third world country, or recovering from an earthquake, so clean loos are not too much to expect... True. I have the greatest respect for the cleaners at Billing and other shows - I would not like that job yet they get on with it and do a very good job. The trouble with the toilets is not the cleaners, it is the animals that pass for humans using/abusing them and making a mess in them. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Trade stands - make the price right so smaller traders can afford to come in and still make money, if the big boys want to buy up an acre of space then let them. I doubt Scrapiron/Devon/etc. would go much bigger than they currently do as they still have to stock the thing, put the tent up, transport all the gear and bring enough staff to keep it going. If they doubled the size of their Bling stand, would they sell twice as much? As for getting any of these ideas off the ground, has anyone thought to contact LiveEvents who run what used to be the LRO show (IIRC)? If they're any good at what they do they should be interested to read this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Baldwin Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I’ve got to agree with a couple of the other posters here, in thinking the whole LR/off-road scene is at the point where we're suffering from 'show fatigue’. No matter who's running it, let’s be honest, it's a case of same s**t, different field. Granted some are better than others, but could you say you ‘really wouldn't want to miss' Billing/Eastnor/P'Boro/Donnington?? IMHO, the last thing we need right now to make things better is another bloody ‘show’! On a purely commercial level, relying on a chunk of revenue to come from trade stands would certainly be suicidal as the trade would probably run a mile from yet another event that promises the same but different. Without exception, traders I know say that Billing is no longer the ‘cash-cow’ it once was with takings down year-on year since it’s peak. Why do you think the likes of Craddocks, DLS. Simmonites, etc etc, gave up going to shows? Interestingly, LRO announced it was giving up on the show thing this year. If the biggest Land Rover magazine in the world with the backing of one of the largest publishers in the world can’t make money at it, then what hope have the rest of us got? What’s needed is something completely different. Less is more. The best events I've been to have all been relatively smaller affairs where the emphasis is on turning up and actually doing something rather than hanging around a field and trying to occupy yourself for a weekend. I’m thinking Belgium National, Croisiére, Cevenol, Solihull Society Rally's in the US and even, dare I say it - Euro Jeep Camp. Maybe it’s no coincidence that all of these events are all overseas. Sad to say but we just seem to lack the imagination that they have abroad and seem to think that getting away with just offering punters a field to camp in, a few burger stalls and a lame ass off-road course and the same old, same old will 'pack em in! Sadly much of thinking posted here is on all too familiar lines of what’s already gone before. Do we really need arena entertainment? Club stands? Even trade stands? This one will upset a few people too, but I’ve come to think the overseas LR owners are a more sophisticated bunch than us Brits and expect a higher standard of event. Granted, outside of this country, they do have the luxury of far more wide open spaces in which to play, but even if the Lake District National Park opened up the Lakes to a 4x4 event, you just know the UK organisers would have entrants settling for a burger van as the catering, or if they were really pushing the boat out the luxury of a roast pork sandwich! The best events have atmosphere and create a sense of camaraderie amongst those taking part. Whether it’s a ski resort in the Alps or Bulith Wells when the Hillrally is in town, these events create a buzz that’s addictive and that makes you want to go back for more. The buzz in the Billing beer tent is from where it’s going to ‘kick off’! Rent a big venue. Don’t just make it OK. Make it great. Limit numbers. That’s what all of the best events do. If it means shoving £50 on the price of a ticket to get a professional catering company in to offer decent sit down meals for the weekend in a marquee then do it! Make it slick. If it’s a ‘great’ weekend, not just good, word will spread. People will pay a premium price for a premium event and they’ll travel lots of miles for the privilege. Plenty of Brits will pay several hundred quid to go to an overseas event so why not on our home turf? If it’s too expensive that it prices out the Chav Rover crowd then so be it. Any event will be better for it. Seven Sisters is certainly a large enough venue. Whether short of ring-fencing the entire site it could be kept secure enough is another matter entirely. Just ask my mate racing in the BORC who suddenly found his Mattserati going head-to-head with an MG Metro down one of the forest roads! Keeping speeds in check on the forest roads might be another H&S headache. Seven Sister’s location would certainly be a great for adding greenlane days out to the event list too. OK, so organised greenlaning isn’t such a politically correct idea and won’t be the hardcore wheelers kind of thing, but I’m just thinking of offering something different. Maybe hook up with the forestry commission and offer another site on which to play. Given the price they charge for land, maybe this is a non-starter too, but again, I’m just throwing out ideas and things that haven’t been done before. As you can probably tell, this is something I’ve sat and talked about on lots of occasions with various ‘off-road people. The killer isn’t finding the venue and coming up with the schedule of events but having the balls to be the first person in the UK to raise the price of UK event entry money to European levels. Apologies if you’re thinking I’m being all high and mighty with my high falutin’ ideas and maybe some are a bit 'pie in the sky' but whenever I’ve sat and watched the perfectly choreographed water display by the local fire brigade over the top of the Belgium National big screen video show, I come away thinking: ‘this would never happen at home’. WHY?? I’ll admit, there will be people reading this thinking ‘I aint paying two hundred quid to go to an event!’ but if we’re talking about offering punters an alternative type of event, then this I’m convinced is the way forward. Otherwise, we’d better get used to rough arse bobtail Disco’s parked on logs, driving over skips, and action packed arena’s with detailed explanations on the intricacies of how to use a Hi-Lift jack…. The end. Kev B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Hmmm.... Hear hear, I think Kev's talking in the right direction. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Mmmmmm Croisiere. Man that is soooo well organised Langley Farm - now there is a show. Probably the best venue around at the moment is Eastnor for the LRW show. Essentially the show is very good as well. It needs a bit of fine tuning BUT most of all it needs the moaners and whiners (sp?) to get off their collective lardy bottoms and help out. People make shows, not just the vendors but mostly the punters. That whole social magic is what you need. Get the clubs in and the social groups (forae), get a good beer tent and a good band, with good beer (get a brewery interested, like OTTER, they will do the show for the beer money if the marquee is provided). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Hmmm....Hear hear, I think Kev's talking in the right direction. Mo I do believe he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I also think the current way U.K. shows are organized is boring. I have been to 2 the last LROI in Peterborough and the one at Malvern. The offroad courses were too short and lame. There were no bargains to be had around the stalls. What I think is the wrong focus is that there needs to be an event that will encourage people to participate rather than just a venue with a bit of this and that. The Norwegian annual event lasts a whole week. There are very few (5ish) trade stands but every day there are trials, greenlaning, daytrips etc, the final of the trials being held on the Saturday. To be honest I couldn't care less if there were any tradestands, what I want from a show are 4x4 related activities that people can participate/ watch whether they own a brand new RR or a tricked up trials motor. All the events Kev mentioned have one thing in common, they are not trade fairs but participant shows/ gatherings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 get off their collective lardy bottoms and help out. People make shows, not just the vendors but mostly the punters. That whole social magic is what you need. Get the clubs in and the social groups (forae), Again, we had big hassle getting a club stand at Eastnor and then turned up to find empty pitches around the place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 To be honest I couldn't care less if there were any tradestands, what I want from a showare 4x4 related activities that people can participate/ watch whether they own a brand new RR or a tricked up trials motor. I think you are right. Donnington is OK because it's just for shopping, there are no other side-shows and you go there expecting to find trade stands. I think the other shows have become too trade orientated, but the punters come there expecting more than just a muddy shopping mall. I think it was easy to run a show with few trade stands when few companies attended shows. Now there are loads - how would you decide who can and who cannot display? If you do it purely by charging a lot, there will be few bargains and just the same old big companies. the current situation is also fairly easy for the organisers. Although I'm not underestimating how much work goes into a show, a show mainly filled with traders is easier to organise than one with lots of events. It will be difficult to turn the clock back. If you accept that traders are a necessary evil, I think the suggestion in my original post still stands scrutiny. Put the traders in a 'walled garden' with low cost entry to the general public and unrestricted access by the other show attendees. Make it one of the attractions alongside the other stuff. At every show I've been to, there have been people selling stuff out of the back of their trucks in the car park and on the access roads. Instead of trying to stop that, have an area for it and encourage it - a sort of mini-sodbury. Again it forms one of the attractions rather than the show itself. Clubs should have free / low cost entry and there should be inter-club competitive activities to promote communication. I don't think the club stands should be in a club area, but instead, mixed up with everything else. Lastly - get Starbucks/Costa coffee on site! Previous years at Billing there has been a coffee shop - but I missed it this year. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 What's Kirton like for this type of event??Cheers Steve Yes I have vested interest in Kirton, but an honest, un-biased opinion would be: perfect We have some of the most varied and challenging terrain you can find in one place, over 600 acres of offroading, 400 acres of camping and car parking, available and at least another 400 acres for trade stands. We have a dedicated cafe with covered seating area, flushing loos, hot and cold showers etc, I personally am hoping that the euro challenge (although an event organised by AWD and Scorpion) will put us on the map and prove that it is the best single multi offering venue in the UK, it may be a bold statement but please dont argue it untill you have been and seen for yourself. We have excellent motorway and A road networks and very close european access (Hull ferry terminal). An average custom of over 150 vehicles for one day per month must prove something, I dont know of any other site that can attract this kind of people for over 18 months - do you? Another snippet of information for any sceptics of acerage is that we have another quarry the same size as the one currently used litterally 25 yards across the road, we havent opened it to the public yet, but believe me it is more varied and challenging than the open site. And a polite note to any pre private messages, I and indeed KORC have not made a single penny from this venture, this post is not an advert, rather a statement of fact, to date, keeping the gates open has cost me and the other seven involved thousands each, and every single penny in profit has been re-invested. Currently and for the very far future its a labour of love, and whilst we have the support of our loyal customers, we will keep it open, we are passionate about the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 It seems to me that what people want is an off-road festival, not a 4x4 show / trade fair. We want a 4x4 version of Glastonbury, not the open-air HMV we currently have. And I agree that Kirton sounds like a winner of a venue, just as long as Rog is kept too busy to ask me about his megasquirt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 And I agree that Kirton sounds like a winner of a venue, just as long as Rog is kept too busy to ask me about his megasquirt oh yeah, true (going to post something on international forum soon mate, Im now even more impressed with your expert like builld of the MS) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 It seems to me that what people want is an off-road festival, not a 4x4 show / trade fair. We want a 4x4 version of Glastonbury, not the open-air HMV we currently have. Thats just what our camping weekends turn out to be like, next one's in August Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 I think Kirton would be an ideal venue, good camping lots of space, proper off roading to be had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Remember, one man's proper off roading is another man's potential law suit. The bulk of Billingites are not forumeers, they are Mr and Mrs J Public and the kids. To them the Billing off road course is as tough as it gets. I for one like the Festival Idea, hell thats what a few of us have been doing all these years with regular laning weekends, 7S, North to South, East to West, Uncle Tom's... But like Mike's big bash at Pilton it needs some bloody good organisation. The highest per capita rate of recreational off roaders is in the West Country. So for us to come to Kirton (for example) it needs to be worth it. What with fuel and entry, booze, food and repairs, that's a few hundred quid for the weekend. I would drive to Kirton - hell I go to Langley Farm when I get the chance; but I go because it's worth it. Next year I have a pass out for Billing but I would be tempted to go to War and Peace instead as it will cost me less and I will have more fun. If I don't go then I have my pass out to use somewhere else, like LRW or The Llama Extreme 4x4 Extraveganza. So with the choice of one show/festival for the whole year it needs to be worth it - get the drift? I would estimate that I am in the majority of 4x4 type folks when it comes to money/time Rambling Over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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