istruggle2gate11 Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 A picture tells a thousand words: (pics not at actual full depth, this is during recovery, full depth was half way up the windows) The story: Going in the water on marshalling duty, all fine, proceeding on tickover, decided that the traction was being lost, selected reverse and with sheer bad luck, the on board air decided to kick in and top itself up. Not normally a problem, but being as the air inlet was already below water, this put immense strain on the pump and of course stalled the engine (that was being put into reverse and on driving tick over - auto). Anyway, after a wet wallet, a swimming mobile phone, a lot of relays clicking etc, the truck was winched out, once recovered, the spark plugs were removed and about 3 pots worth of water was ejected - assuming it came up through the exhaust (a very impressive sidenote was the fact that the megasquirt box was fully immersed, then taken to bits, dried in the sun for 30 mins and re-assembled the engine struck up after about 5 turns with seemingly no lasting damage). The sad thing is, now Im megasquirted, I regularly go through deeper water than that! Anyway, obviously, some dirty water got into the sump, and emulsified with the oil, Ive flushed it 4 times and fitted two new filters, I still have very good oil presure (goes off with just three engine cranks on the starter) and the oil has stayed clean. Any further advice / tips? Further flushing required? Im not to a few pennies on oil, the engine is a gud un. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 maybe a good long run to get the oil really hot so it can evaporate any remaining moisture & maybe another oil/filter to be sure it's in A1 order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Oh Sh!t……………. looks a bit like my story, only I had a hole in timing case Rog, the fact that your oil pressure is OK seems very positive …..but ……….. my advice will be to drop the sump and clean the sump & strainer. The reason being is that the water is not exactly clean and small particles of grit will enter the engine. When you drain the sump these particles together with emulsified oil seem to stick to the sump pan……….. also emulsified oil is a b@gger to get out of the strainer. Also drop the oil pump because emulsified oil gets stuck up behind the relief valve and tends to stay there. I used proprietary brands of engine flush and 3 oil changes ………. But there was still half a pint of silt in the sump pan ! Once the above has been done, fill with decent oil and hope that mother luck is smiling on you. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Oops! This is why I tend to lacquer MS PCB's with conformal coating when I know they're going to a Land-Rover based home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Oh Sh!t……………. looks a bit like my story, only I had a hole in timing caseRog, the fact that your oil pressure is OK seems very positive …..but ……….. my advice will be to drop the sump and clean the sump & strainer. The reason being is that the water is not exactly clean and small particles of grit will enter the engine. When you drain the sump these particles together with emulsified oil seem to stick to the sump pan……….. also emulsified oil is a b@gger to get out of the strainer. Also drop the oil pump because emulsified oil gets stuck up behind the relief valve and tends to stay there. I used proprietary brands of engine flush and 3 oil changes ………. But there was still half a pint of silt in the sump pan ! Once the above has been done, fill with decent oil and hope that mother luck is smiling on you. Ian Advice noted mate, I will order the relevant gaskets in the morning. Thanks. Oops! This is why I tend to lacquer MS PCB's with conformal coating when I know they're going to a Land-Rover based home Yep, kudos to FF, relocating the MS to the roof now, hey, watch me roll it into a 6" puddle now!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Mmmmmmm............... Water there is normaly only 8" deep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 Mmmmmmm...............Water there is normaly only 8" deep Scary eh? At the deepest in that hole it was about 5½' Its like a different site at the moment, its weird (as Kirton usually is) the site is not flooded, but where water has decided to settle, boy has it settled, the lakes risen by about 4' (and as you know, its a big big lake) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Blimey! Good to know MS recovers from submersion. Where are you taking your inlet from to your on board air? I have my Sanden tee'd into the drivers side rocker cover pipe, which i think lets it breathe a mix of oily vapours and filtered air from the snorkel (or mine will when i get round to fitting it). Oil seperator on the outlet line removes any nasties. On second thoughts, rolling it may cause the sanden to gulp pure engine oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Read this, then make your mind up..... http://www.landroveraddict.com/smf/index.php?topic=360715.0 Not as deep as your's either mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 Blimey! Good to know MS recovers from submersion. Where are you taking your inlet from to your on board air? I have my Sanden tee'd into the drivers side rocker cover pipe, which i think lets it breathe a mix of oily vapours and filtered air from the snorkel (or mine will when i get round to fitting it). Oil seperator on the outlet line removes any nasties. On second thoughts, rolling it may cause the sanden to gulp pure engine oil Ok Tom its a fair cop, the air inlet is very lazily about 4 inch above the passenger footwell floor Read this, then make your mind up.....http://www.landroveraddict.com/smf/index.php?topic=360715.0 Not as deep as your's either mike Not the first, and probably not the last to do it then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Rog, Don’t forget to order the strainer gasket, as you may need to remove it for cleaning. It’s important to get a good seal on the strainer to stop the pump from draining back to the sump…….. At least if the sump and strainer are clear when you remove them you will have the peace of mind in knowing the facts …………..also dropping the sump is easy on the LR range. It is easier to remove the flywheel cover plate for sump refitting. TIP: when putting the sump back on………….fit the 16 bolts loose………. Fit the flywheel cover plate and then push the sump slighty rearwards to seat against the plate and then tighten up the bolts ……… 2 rears, then the 2 fronts, then 2 centre near side, then 2 centre off side …………….then tighten up the rest in any order. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 Rog,Don’t forget to order the strainer gasket, as you may need to remove it for cleaning. It’s important to get a good seal on the strainer to stop the pump from draining back to the sump…….. At least if the sump and strainer are clear when you remove them you will have the peace of mind in knowing the facts …………..also dropping the sump is easy on the LR range. It is easier to remove the flywheel cover plate for sump refitting. TIP: when putting the sump back on………….fit the 16 bolts loose………. Fit the flywheel cover plate and then push the sump slighty rearwards to seat against the plate and then tighten up the bolts ……… 2 rears, then the 2 fronts, then 2 centre near side, then 2 centre off side …………….then tighten up the rest in any order. Ian So does that method of sump replacement help avoid the gasket from squeezing out then? Ive had the sump off a in-situ motor more times than I can shake a stick at (usually replacing main bearings) but I detest the way the gasket squeezes out, to that end, I tend to coat both mating faces quite heavily with RTV silicone to help avoid any leaking issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 My sump's stuck on with the genuine LR black goo which seems to work pretty well - it doesn't leak anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 My sump's stuck on with the genuine LR black goo which seems to work pretty well - it doesn't leak anyway Eh???? The bottom of your engine was bladdered with oil when I was under it at the weekend!!!!! Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 The gasket squeezes out by less than an 1/8” (3mm for you youngsters !). The big issue with RTV is the amount of carp it leaves in the sump ………. I have seen strainers almost blocked with the stuff. HFH has a good method ………… he lays a good bead on the sump and then offers the sump up with the bolts just slightly less then finger tight. ……………..then leaves it overnight and tightens the bolts fully the following day………… this stops the rtv from squeezing out the sides. I have looked into the gasket / rtv debate and found that the later sumps actually have a V in the sump mating surface for a 2mm RTV bead. The early sumps just have a flat surface. On my engines I tend to use the cork gasket and have had no problems………. It is important to degrease the block surface and the sump mating surface with brake cleaner / carb cleaner before fitting. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Eh???? The bottom of your engine was bladdered with oil when I was under it at the weekend!!!!! That's a different leak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 That's a different leak Ahh...... so you haven't stopped the oil filter housing from leaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 On a different note Rog, Have you had a look at where that water got into the oil system on that relic of an engine you run My moneys on dipstick o-ring or rocker breather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 On a different note Rog,Have you had a look at where that water got into the oil system on that relic of an engine you run My moneys on dipstick o-ring or rocker breather What 'O' ring? Does that answer your question! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 What 'O' ring? Does that answer your question! Muppet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 Muppet yep, No excuse, It was about ½ way down the dipstick tube! Must have dislodged, then when checking oil slipped/got pressed down. Im going for total overkill tonight though, going to turn up a threaded male and female adaptor, with o ring seal, so that it requires turning into location thus creating a seal. Will make checking oil level a PITA but hey, small price to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Another thing to look at is the way the dipstick tube goes into the block. rover bodgery at it's best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Normal practice is to run a small bead of RTV around the tube flange before fitting into the block..... The 3.5's had a finger collar that bolted to the one of the outside row head bolts ............. 3.9 & later just have the tube shoved in the hole and a crappy 'P' clip held onto the side of the rocker cover with a self tapper ................ but it is important to fit the crappy 'P' clip, otherwise the tube fractures with vibration. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 Normal practice is to run a small bead of RTV around the tube flange before fitting into the block.....The 3.5's had a finger collar that bolted to the one of the outside row head bolts ............. 3.9 & later just have the tube shoved in the hole and a crappy 'P' clip held onto the side of the rocker cover with a self tapper ................ but it is important to fit the crappy 'P' clip, otherwise the tube fractures with vibration. Ian Why not tap the block out and use a nut and olive around the dipstick? Or get a proper engine where they o-ringed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 Or get a proper engine where they o-ringed it Nah, No one on this earth could convince me to do that, come on, lets face it, this water in engine problem was a build/maintenance issue. With megasquirt, I now have all the power and glory of V8 including the only good attribute of the diesel, being able to run in water! (except when stalled and allowed to swallow like a whore!) You see, missing me already, wanting your weekly fix of Diesel vs Petrol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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