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TD5 temp sender ?


Mo Murphy
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I've got the TD5 dash all up and working now except that the temp gauge (no, I'm not going to get a vdo one so save your fingertips ;) ) which reads low (normal running temp is in the blue segment).

My engine is a 300 Tdi transplant so I'm not sure what sender is in there now.

I've done a search for sender threads but they tend to be clogged up with vdo recommendations (well intentioned but I want to keep LR parts).

I've searched microcat for a number for a TD5 sender number to no avail.

Does anyone have the part no. and is it different to Tdi senders as regards the thread ?

Does anyone have any suggestions as to a course of action to remedy the reading ?

Cheers

Mo

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Guest diesel_jim

I think you'll need the "300Tdi wiring loom but fitted to a Td5 dash" as in, the export model 300Tdi with the Td5 dash, like Bogmonster has. he was kind enough to send me the part number....

YMG109260

this should make the temp guage work correctly.

Quoting the email he sent me:

TDI instrument harness YMG109260

TD5 instrument harness YMG109280

If a Tdi one is fitted with a Td5, the temp gauge never moves off cold. If a Td5 one is fitted with a Tdi, the thing starts off cold but rapidly goes into the red as the engine warms up. No idea what the differences are but you need the right one! The only way I know to tell them apart is by the little white label carrying the part number - if you undo the screws holding the instrument pack in and take the whole thing out you should be able to see the label on the harness.

hope that helps... i'll be ordering one for mine!

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Mo (and Jim!) you will also need a late type 300Tdi sender, IIRC there are 2 types and right now I don't have the part number for either but I am pretty sure the early 300Tdi sender as used on 1994-98 vehicles won't work with the Td5 type instruments. Ralph may be able to consult his bible of part numbers and provide you with the answer, failing that I will try and find out tomorrow ;)

So you need the right sender for export spec 99-06MY 300Tdi Defenders (like my 110) and the different wiring harness as Jim said up there ^^^ , if you stick both of those in then it should work fine :)

When you get the Tdi instrument harness and take the instrument pack out it will be pretty obvious where it goes, basically it is the bit that goes between the main vehicle harness (the point where you would unplug it to take the instrument pack out), and the back of the gauges.

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Erm, I made my own "harness". I wonder what's in that Tdi harness to change things ?

From the wiring diagram, the TD5 wiring to the temp gauge is different to the Tdi in that the sender wire is routed via the speedo, in on pin 5, I think and out on pin 9 on the c1061 connector (the lower one) on the back of the speedo. The wire from pin 9 then goes to the ground terminal on the back of the temp gauge. On the Tdi according to the diagram, it goes from sender straight to the ground terminal bypassing the speedo.

Stu and I tried both today, getting low reading on the tdi set up and nothing on the td5 set up, so next stop is a late 300 sender.

Thanks guys

Mo

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Never mind Ralph, over to Stephen in the studio ...

Just a thought, is this a resistance thing ? Could one introduce a resister into the wire from the sender to alter the reading ? Perhaps, I suspect, that's too easy :(

Mo

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Never mind Ralph, over to Stephen in the studio ...

Just a thought, is this a resistance thing ? Could one introduce a resister into the wire from the sender to alter the reading ? Perhaps, I suspect, that's too easy :(

Mo

Hi

Dont know if this will help or just muddy the water!

I have what was a 1999 (TD5 dash) V8, when I put a 200 TDI engine in the guage read cold all the time.

I was told about the diffrent types of harness and resistors were mentioned.

What I did was run a new wire from sender to guage and it worked as advertised. Its normall runing position is now dead center but it does re act clearly to thermostat opening or a hard slog up hill by moving up and down.

Yes I know its meant to but before replacing the wire it was very stable so I think there is a resistor in there some where.

thirsty

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The Td5 gauge is driven by the ECU, not directly by the sender, so the difference is to do with that. I think the next stop is a new sender and when I get to work later I will check the p/no but I think Jim is right, that one rings a bell anyway :)

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^^^^^^

quite possibly AMR3321

"normal" 300Tdi's (rangie/disco/defender) are AMR1425

Can't confirm 100% but it looks to me like "normal" (from a 1995 age 300Tdi Defender parts book) are AMR3321 but in later Td5 Defender parts books (printed in 1999) this is still the only number listed... Microcat has both numbers but nothing useful like VIN ranges to help identify which one fits what age :angry: however since the AMR1425 doesn't appear in anything other than the latest Microcat I'm guessing it is the newer sort but I can't confirm that 100% and I've got the Discofairy at work today but I'll try and remember to have a look at my 110 at lunchtime...

IIRC one sort has a green surround and the other black so you may be able to see what you have fitted now and then go to a parts place and ask for the other colour?

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Just checked a few vehicles and the black sender is fitted to "proper" 300Tdi vehicles i.e. 1994-1998MY with the old type instrument pack, while the newer 300Tdis built from 1999-2006MY with a Td5 type instrument pack have the green sender fitted. So the one you'll want Mo is AMR1425.

Work Microcat is bang up to date but still doesn't tell you anything useful :rolleyes:

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I've got the green one now, I'll give it a go in the morning.

Thanks Jim and Stephen :)

Stephen old boy, may I ask one more favour of you. If you find yourself with 10 mins with nothing to do ;) Would you mind doing a resistance reading between one end of the temp sender wire and the other. I just want to find out if there is extra resistance put into the circuit. A bit of a liberty I realise but Pretty please :)

Mo

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Let me know if the green sender does it and I might not have to,

Will try and do it some time but it is still dark after work and I think the controller of programmes is planning more floating floors for the weekend so not sure when :unsure:

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Let me know if the green sender does it and I might not have to,

Will try and do it some time but it is still dark after work and I think the controller of programmes is planning more floating floors for the weekend so not sure when :unsure:

I've tried the green sender and it reads too high !

Stu thinks that if we put a resister in the wire from the sender to the guage and use the old black sender (which reads low) we should be able to tune the resistance to suit the gauge. I've been looking at the RS online catalogue but I don't know which ones to buy :( I'm looking at a range between 5ohms and 20ohms. Could one of you techy types advise ?

Mo

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You probably need the Tdi type dash harness then, because that is what happens with a Td5 harness and a Tdi engine/sender, it looks fine till the engine starts to warm up, then it goes off into the red once the engine is hot.

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I've tried the green sender and it reads too high !

Stu thinks that if we put a resister in the wire from the sender to the guage and use the old black sender (which reads low) we should be able to tune the resistance to suit the gauge. I've been looking at the RS online catalogue but I don't know which ones to buy :( I'm looking at a range between 5ohms and 20ohms. Could one of you techy types advise ?

Mo

Trouble is change with resistance isn't linear with temp, it tends to be an inverse exponential so just adding a resistor is probably not going to do it - you will need different value resistors at different temps to get the "offset" right. You will only need 0.25 or 0.5W types as the gauge doesn't draw much current. Bog standard carbon film at 5% or metal film at 1% tolerance will do - they are a few pence each, but RS only sell these resistors in packs of 10. You might be better off to try Maplin where you can get them individually. I suspect you will only get the gauge to read correct at one temp point - say normal coolant temp - it will still be wrong at other points on the scale.

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Trouble is change with resistance isn't linear with temp, it tends to be an inverse exponential so just adding a resistor is probably not going to do it - you will need different value resistors at different temps to get the "offset" right. You will only need 0.25 or 0.5W types as the gauge doesn't draw much current. Bog standard carbon film at 5% or metal film at 1% tolerance will do - they are a few pence each, but RS only sell these resistors in packs of 10. You might be better off to try Maplin where you can get them individually. I suspect you will only get the gauge to read correct at one temp point - say normal coolant temp - it will still be wrong at other points on the scale.

It should be possible to make it work though - remember that LR make a 300Tdi engine and green sender work with a Td5 type instrument pack, I have one parked at my house :)

so it should be possible with standard parts...

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Guest diesel_jim
- they are a few pence each, but RS only sell these resistors in packs of 10. You might be better off to try Maplin where you can get them individually. I suspect you will only get the gauge to read correct at one temp point - say normal coolant temp - it will still be wrong at other points on the scale.

I went through our stores today and grabbed a handful of all different value resistors today, got them in an envelope just waitin for Mo to send me his address so i can post them! :rolleyes:

If i get chance i'll try playing with the Td5 guage i've got, and stick it on my Tdi and see what happens.

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Thanks Jamie :) Pm sent

Steven, I don't think that a 1986 19j TD dash harness counts as a TD5 harness.

Since I'm using the td5 gauge and the green sender again, surely it can only be additional resistance in the harness that makes it work as on the 300 export vehicles.

I have the same gauge, the same sender so it can only be the wire !

The harness is a bit pricey at £55 and more than I'm willing to pay for several 8" wires and a multiplug.

Mo

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  • 9 months later...
Hi

Dont know if this will help or just muddy the water!

I have what was a 1999 (TD5 dash) V8, when I put a 200 TDI engine in the guage read cold all the time.

I was told about the diffrent types of harness and resistors were mentioned.

What I did was run a new wire from sender to guage and it worked as advertised. Its normall runing position is now dead center but it does re act clearly to thermostat opening or a hard slog up hill by moving up and down.

Yes I know its meant to but before replacing the wire it was very stable so I think there is a resistor in there some where.

thirsty

I treid that too, but still no reading on the Td5 temp gague, suspect the sender has a different resistance on a Defender 200Tdi engine.

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