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Building for the future


Paul Wightman

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Oh Boy!

Real interesting thread this one be!!

As an organ grinder I am really interested where this particular theme has gone.

From suggestions as to what to build for the future, to the mine field that is organising an event, with minimum risk to all involved.

I can only speak for the events I run and, as they are held on Forest Enterprise land, I am required to have a minimum of 5M public liability insurance.

I must also ensure that all vehicles are road legal because there is a right of access to the public to all Enterprise land - it is considered the public highway in the eyes of the law and the police are entitled to the same powers as any over road in Scotland.

This was made quite clear a couple of years ago when a Forest Drive organised by thenselves went horribly wrong, resulting in a participant breaking her neck.

The Police impounded the vehicle and it was taken to the traffic department for examination.

No charges were ever brought as this particular accident was just that and, more importantly the vehicle in question was found to be extremely well maintained.

**** happens - we can only take the maximum measures to ensure damage limitation.

Andy Thomlinson

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[No charges were ever brought as this particular accident was just that and, more importantly the vehicle in question was found to be extremely well maintained.

**** happens - we can only take the maximum measures to ensure damage limitation.

Andy Thomlinson

Or was it that he was just a SWEATY SOCK :D

Oh & sorry Paul thats what happens when you use a Gooseberry on the M25 :huh: Plus im thick

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Hi Andy, looking forward to the hell and damnation that only a principality like Scotland can offer in the shape of the Tay!

As you say, this thread is throwing up some very important questions. As an Organiser what lengths do you and your scrutineers have to go to to satisfy your insurance obligations that a vehicle is road legal?

Neil and Nigel, could you both answer the same question?

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Hi Paul,

You should recieve the final instruction letter in tomorrows post for the TFC 2007.

It is a totally different site to Argyll and I think you will really like it!

The insurance we have used in previous years made no requirement that the vehicles had to be road legal, however the landowner did!

They were also the ones insisting on a minimum of 5 million public liability insurance - to be honest, I would not have considered it without their insistance - but would not operate without it now!

We also had to create a Risk Assessment Report that runs to some 26 pages, covering every aspect of all the risks imaginable during an event of this type - this was also a requirement for the F/Enterprise and has focused all of our minds on a number of risks we had not considered.

The insurance company were mighty pleased with this piece of work as well!

The Forest Enterprise land is public highway as there is the right of access and is treated the same as any normal road - so your vehicle must be roadworthy in the eyes of the law for any transit sections using the forest roads, between the off-road sections.

You will see quite clearly that in order to make our lives a little easier we insist on inspection of all original documentation regarding all entrants vehicles during scrutineering - this ensures that in the eyes of the law, documentation exists to prove the vehicle registration number/vehicle/insurance presented for inspection, is roadworthy.

It should also prove that the vehicle has passed an MOT test and that the damn thing stops, steers etc.

We all know the tricks that can be pulled but you will not have to prove to us the validity of your paperwork in the unlikely event of being pulled - just the Scottish Consabulary!

In summary, it should save time checking all the areas covered by the relevant testing proceedures.

I want to be able to sleep nights, without worring that some pile of dangerous, rusty rubbish is participating and even risking our insurance provisions.

If you have any specific questions - please feel free to ask them.

Andy Thomlinson.

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Not too bad for the organiser then, you only need to see paperwork and obviously a cursory glance at the vehicle and recovery equipment.

So as far as competitions are concerned if one could blag his way through the SVA, MOT, C&U, insurance etc and avoid capture by the Gestapo one is in.

I think it all comes down to conscience, honesty or perhaps nerve, lack of fear. Maybe part of the sport is to see how much you can get past the regulatory system. Unless we have an AWD logbook system there is only the MOT/SVA etc. to control vehicle build and condition.

I know of a present situation following an off-road accident and nearly two years later the legal rottweilers are sinking their teeth into anyone remotely connected and shaking violently. Accidents don’t exist these days.

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Hi Andy, looking forward to the hell and damnation that only a principality like Scotland can offer in the shape of the Tay!

As you say, this thread is throwing up some very important questions. As an Organiser what lengths do you and your scrutineers have to go to to satisfy your insurance obligations that a vehicle is road legal?

Neil and Nigel, could you both answer the same question?

In short... we don't. It is not a requirement of our event insurance that a vehicle be road legal.

It does however need to meet the safety criteria laid down by the MSA and replicated in the Challenge Technical Regulations.

The need to be Road Taxed is an eligibility issue that we have decided on for our Classes 2 & 3, it is our choice to implement this and a way to structure the classes.

This leaves Class 1 which is open to non Road Taxed vehicles including those with rear steer and from next year those with full hydro steer.

The reason we have taken this decision is that it is our belief that those vehicles with full hydro 'may not' be fully road legal in the taxation class displayed and therefore the Road Tax displayed on them 'may' be invalid.

None of the above however would affect our insurance as Road Tax is not an MSA requirement.

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