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Destroyed my Rover front diff Part 2


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In a short period of time I have the second front diff failure. Another half-shaft that refused to cooperate.

My rear axle is a Salisbury with an ARB, but the front axle is a weak Rover diff, open differential with 10 spline half shafts.

From the beginning I knew that it was a weak point in mine transmission. I know where I can find a front Salisbury, but I has told that is quite difficult to find exchange parts to these differentials.

What I really want to know if I really increase the strengthness of the differentials if I swap the 10 spline half shafts by 24 spline.

Thanks,

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The 4.7 ratio Rover diff is unfortunately very fragile, but the Salisbury front diff is really a bit of ground clearance eating overkill, particularly if it has the very weak universally jointed halfshafts. They only begin to make sense when fitted with Stage 1 V8 hubs, spindles and AEU2522 constant velocity joints.These joints are definately stronger but can still be broken. However much stronger replacements are available from Ashcrofts . All the internal differential components are identical to rear Salisbury diffs, and properly maintained you should never need to replace anything ,save for bearings. You can''shave a Salibury to gain slightly better groundclearance, but even when shaved they have a large surface area and do tend to get hung up on rocks,mud etc unless biggish tyres are fitted.

Bill.

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In a short period of time I have the second front diff failure. Another half-shaft that refused to cooperate.

My rear axle is a Salisbury with an ARB, but the front axle is a weak Rover diff, open differential with 10 spline half shafts.

From the beginning I knew that it was a weak point in mine transmission. I know where I can find a front Salisbury, but I has told that is quite difficult to find exchange parts to these differentials.

What I really want to know if I really increase the strengthness of the differentials if I swap the 10 spline half shafts by 24 spline.

Thanks,

The SIII outer side shaft is much thicker ( +/- 30mm at the thinnest part). They shouldn't break. Problem is that your crown wheel becomes the next weakest link. Refer my post. There is a mod to help prevent the flexing of the crown wheel and thus the gear stripping, but it is quite involved and to my knowledge not worth it. If your inner side shafts are breaking you have to change the diff to change them. Get the front Salisbury, get the ARB (using the same compressor), get the big tyres and become a legend in your own bedroom.

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Bill,

Thank you for the tip. But can I ask you just one more question?

What parts I should swap in this Rover diff to obtain one similar to the Stage one?

I would also like to know. Sorry to but in here. I went playing again this weekend and "touch wood" - no diff breakage. The ENV front behaved well. Carlos, are ARB lockers plentifull in Portugal?

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I would also like to know. Sorry to but in here. I went playing again this weekend and "touch wood" - no diff breakage. The ENV front behaved well. Carlos, are ARB lockers plentifull in Portugal?

Yes, it's available and easy to get ARB here. The big problem is that there are rare strong solutions available for the Series... Sooner or later I will swap the complete axles, but it still under studies.

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Bill,

Thank you for the tip. But can I ask you just one more question?

What parts I should swap in this Rover diff to obtain one similar to the Stage one?

Ideally you should get the complete swivel housing assemblies including hubs and CV's from the Stage 1 v8. these will then bolt straight on to series 2, 2a and 3 axle housings. The Stage 1 ten spline inner shafts are made from better material than series shafts but if you want to go to 24 spline you will have to go aftermarket along with aftermarket 4 pinion carrier, difflock etc.

Bill.

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Ideally you should get the complete swivel housing assemblies including hubs and CV's from the Stage 1 v8. these will then bolt straight on to series 2, 2a and 3 axle housings. The Stage 1 ten spline inner shafts are made from better material than series shafts but if you want to go to 24 spline you will have to go aftermarket along with aftermarket 4 pinion carrier, difflock etc.

Bill.

That is how i upgraded mine, the next step to avoid the weakness in the rover diff is to peg it and change the carrier to an arb or 4 pin, with aftermarket shafts, or get a Jacmac toy center with upgraded shafts, but i heard that the 4.7 cw&p on these centers are badly designed (bill??)

The salibury and env axles tend to suffer from the weak UJ's, saw a couple of broken ones with the ears of the shafts chewed up!

The last and i think more expensive option is to go with the seriestrek axles or an ashcrofts custom jobby!

Grem

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or get a Jacmac toy center with upgraded shafts, but i heard that the 4.7 cw&p on these centers are badly designed (bill??)

Grem

I don't know if Macs have rectified the fault with the 4.7 ratio in recent years but that was the ratio that was problematic a few years back. The 4.75 :1 replacement ring and pinion for Rover type diffs, made by or for Great Basin Rovers,although expensive seems to be holding up quite well in the front of a friends 4.6 v8 hybrid on 38'' TSLs, although I deliberately chose to use the standard spiral bevel cut set in preference to the opposite hand, ''mirror image'' cut set designed for the front, as I believe that idea was based on flawed reasoning.

Bill

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IMHO pegging a correctly set up 4.7 ring and pinion effectively solves the problem. I've not broken one since I pegged my diffs. I was going through one per outing before I did this. Its not hard to do if you've access to a reasonably equipped workshop.

Swapping the outer front shafts for the late series 3 24 spline ones is a good upgrade. I've never broken a front shaft, but I have occasionaly found they have a twist in at the inner end where the splines go into the diff. Hoever this is only ever on the long shaft - never the short one!I've been experimenting with some home made shafts lately to see how I get on with this.

Nobody in europe makes a 24 spline series front innner shaft. I believe GBR do them in the states but they're spendy! Jack mac probably also does, but Jack Mac stuff is silly money.

I'm running ARB's and 33" tyres with a V8.

I'm not a fan of CV's - not only are they expensive, but IMHO they are no stronger than the earlier U/J's.

Jon

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I'm not a fan of CV's - not only are they expensive, but IMHO they are no stronger than the earlier U/J's.

Jon

I beg to differ. When I first designed difflocks for my series 1 Landy back in the mid 1970's I was destroying a universally jointed axle almost every trip. A swap to 1948 to 1951 Tracta joints solved the problem.Birfield joints weren't used in LandRovers in those days but when they became available in wrecked Stage Ones in the late 1970's I began using them in my difflock equipped series 2 vehicles with equal success. It is only since the advent of larger grippier tyres and deep reduction gearing in my vehicles that Birfield joint breakage began to occur, but now I feel I have got on top of the problem by dressing all the sharp edges and corners plus welding a strengthening ring on the bell.

Bill.

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I don't know if Macs have rectified the fault with the 4.7 ratio in recent years but that was the ratio that was problematic a few years back. The 4.75 :1 replacement ring and pinion for Rover type diffs, made by or for Great Basin Rovers,although expensive seems to be holding up quite well in the front of a friends 4.6 v8 hybrid on 38'' TSLs, although I deliberately chose to use the standard spiral bevel cut set in preference to the opposite hand, ''mirror image'' cut set designed for the front, as I believe that idea was based on flawed reasoning.

Bill

Just to clarify; Bill Davis at Great Basin Rovers does not manufacture his own parts. He does however stock numerous parts that were made to his design and specifications. Other pieces he stocks are just what he considers to be the best out there. In my years of doing business with him, I have found that the reason to his "priciness" is that he will not sell cheaper components which he does not have faith in. The cryoed option on the 4.75 gear sets makes them very strong indeed.

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well...

a lot of solutions, some are feasible some not:

  1. new half shaft with the same configuration - sooner or later I will be here enquiring again :P
  2. new stock half shafts with 24 spline ( still 10 spline on the diff???) - better but not the best
  3. stage one configuration, very good option
  4. series trek, quite expensive
  5. Great Basin Rover, quite all right ;)

the axle swap for Salisbury and ENV aren't really good solutions in mine opinion (I know that I suggested this before). Both are difficult to find here (Portugal), and after some enquiries concluded that the availability of parts is uncommon.

May be I have a nice conversation with Santa and fit an ARB as well...

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Excuse my geographical ignorance, but aren't you close to Santana territory ? I was under the impression that Santana designed out most of LandRovers weaknesses for their versions. Can't you use a Santana front end complete?

Bill.

Yes it's true, Spain is 1h30 far away from here. So is not that far. I already went to Spain and bought the Santana engine and front discs.

But, to be honest never thought on that possibility. I will check out as well if it is improved relatively to original LR. If I remember well the diff ratio is 3.54:1, is only thing I know and I'm not certain of that.

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Yes it's true, Spain is 1h30 far away from here. So is not that far. I already went to Spain and bought the Santana engine and front discs.

But, to be honest never thought on that possibility. I will check out as well if it is improved relatively to original LR. If I remember well the diff ratio is 3.54:1, is only thing I know and I'm not certain of that.

Check these out, i do not know how much stronger they are from the rover stuff, anybody tried these??

http://www.heystee-automotive.com/parts/drvline/drvline.htm

Grem

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Still the skinny 10 spline at the diffs.

To be honest I don't how much splines it has, but in the past I contacted Paul Heystee and he told me that these cv's joints weren't available and he had prevision to made more. But, maybe, are available now.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Why stick to Land Rover axles? There are quite a few filthy heretics out there using non-LR axles to great effect these days. Allegedly :unsure:

Toy Halfshafts for Series Trucks

Take it from one of the filth, dump the tin 10 spline halfshafts and North Korean diffs. You can try putting a 4 pin diff in the front but it won't help your halfshaft problem. Toyota halfshafts and a set of e-locker diffs will transferom your 88", and you can get rid of the ground clearance eating Sals.

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