Exmoor Beast Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Interesting point raised over on Devon4x4s webforum Here The jist being that vehicles with a modified chassis need to be SVA tested and a welded in replacement rear winch crossmember could be seen and a chassis modification. Might be worth looking a bit if it effects you... Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 goes back to the point that challenge car SVAs are meaningless IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Mine was tested for its SVA with a rear winch cross member no problem ! If you read the gumf......its says ANY modification to the chassis requires an SVA....period... If people want to bury there heads in the sand thats up to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 did you have one at the front Les? or are you using a bolt on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Mine was tested for its SVA with a rear winch cross member no problem !If you read the gumf......its says ANY modification to the chassis requires an SVA....period... If people want to bury there heads in the sand thats up to them So you technically need annother SVA now Will, it is a serious point that I'd been thinking about when you brought it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 did you have one at the front Les? or are you using a bolt on? It had the 6mm front cross member and mounts but no winch fitted.....that was ok as a winch is commercial fitment , so it could have been presented with it place Will Warne......shut up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exmoor Beast Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 and if you replace the crossmember do you lose the 5points for the chassis? I imagine several of us are driving 'Triggers Broom' as far as axles, gearboxes and steering components are concerned not to mention suspension. A lawyer could have some fun with your life savings if you were to have an accident and the Insurers decided to get funny about it. Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 and if you replace the crossmember do you lose the 5points for the chassis? I imagine several of us are driving 'Triggers Broom' as far as axles, gearboxes and steering components are concerned not to mention suspension. A lawyer could have some fun with your life savings if you were to have an accident and the Insurers decided to get funny about it. Will If you replace it like for like then you are fine beacause it is simply a replacement for an original type approved item...nowt else is eg...RSJ ain't or 4 inches shorter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 and if you replace the crossmember do you lose the 5points for the chassis? I imagine several of us are driving 'Triggers Broom' as far as axles, gearboxes and steering components are concerned not to mention suspension. A lawyer could have some fun with your life savings if you were to have an accident and the Insurers decided to get funny about it. Will Will, as far as I understand it (from chaps who've had VIC's) there aren't any issues with aftermarket suspension systems or axle internals. I know a chap who presented a D-Lander for VIC fully fitted out with D44 revolver shock mounts and full Ashcroft axle internals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Will (EB), you're mixing two things here. The points system is just about retaining vehicle id (and reg) and it could be as much of a Triggers broom as you like but if you've been replacing like with like and are not trying to defraud anyone or pass the vehicle off as something it isn't then there is no issue from a construction and use (and hence safety) perspective. Triggers Broom is still triggers broom. The SVA is something quite different though, bit like fitting a bigger head to the broom or a lighter handle. The manufacturers type approval is now no longer valid and the vehicle (broom) will require an SVA. In this space a mod with no SVA could well expose you to a lot of hassle. The rules are quite clear that ANY chassis mod requires an SVA and while on a LR fitting a winch bucket into the rear cross member may not alter its impact absorption qualities much but by the book it should still be SVA'd. However for such a mod I suspect the powers that be would not be very interrested in having a stream of LR pas through their door for full SVA testing and would most likely exempt the modification. Maybe the answer lies in applying for an SVA and retaining the letter of exemption. Of course this letter of exemption (or SVA) does not exempt you from further modifications but does anyone ever make further mods to their trucks once they've been SVA'd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Yes...even the fit car guys build to pass and then put all the gucci kit on after ! Total mockery of the whole system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exmoor Beast Posted August 16, 2007 Author Share Posted August 16, 2007 Will (EB), you're mixing two things here. I was just taking things a step further really, in that if replacing the crossmember (putting a bigger head on the broom)constitutes a chassis modification you could suddenly find your id is in question when allied to the other modifications you have already. Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 So you technically need annother SVA now But no one at my SVA test made any note as to what exact mods my vehicle had. so how would they no if it was done pre/post SVA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I would imagine the tester would have access to the relevant information to be able to determine if your chassis is modified or not so it would be wise to assume that you can't fool him. The front crossmember for catflap has to be moved, and I considered re-shaping the end where the PAS box goes by dog-legging it, moving the whole standard crossmember forwards a few inches, or do away with the original and just put some heavy box section in it's place but forward from the original position. The chassis is worth 5-points, so it's important to me if it passes as standard or not. At present the only other mod will be a 2.5 intercooled engine and power steering, but I'm limited to what I can do in the future if I lose 5-points on the chassis. If it passes, then I can replace the transmission and axles and still keep the original reg, which is exempt at present. If I lose the exempt status, then that's a shame, but breaking the law, or falling foul of an insurance claim is a different thing entirely. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Will, I don't have a front cross-member on my 90, I have a welded in winch mount made by Mr. Wightman. I haven't got an SVA either. Nor do I have any intention of getting one Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I have studied this at great length inc having conv with VOSA and DVLA and corresepondence and even written articles for mags as a result. The main "Trigger" is the modification of the chassis which alters its "design Concept" and overall dimesnions. Does replacing a outrigger trigger a SVA - No, its a repair. Does a new front rear crossmember trigger a SVA - no repair What if it is a different metal thickness and or minor design but same Overall length - OK is a repair What if i shorten the overhang - SVA What if I use the same original Crossmember but cut out the chassis overhang so the crossmember is there but chassis length different = SVA If I shove an RSJ on as the crossmember = Grey = but prob SVA as you can't say 'repair' as its nowhere near the same ie 'grey' If I alter the wheelbase = SVA if I have a rotten chassis and weld up the entire length with 3" steel to replace whats rotted out = repair and similarlrly on sides ? = repair If I loose the chassis number in repairing it = Prob SVA as 'grey' as you can't prove identity ...........And If I keep the identity......... and weld it on to show = 'grey' Basically there is black White and 'grey' The grey is up to you, as is the black The more grey or black you have on a vehicle the worse the situation gets, the points system is another catch all, .............and has to equally be understood,..... there is grey here too If you have say a LR90 with a factroy Lt85 and it goes "BANG" and you repalce it is that OK ?, whilst grey its prob OK as like for like, and who can prove it LR numbering systems are nonsense and who or what could you be infringing / defrauding ? repalce it with a R380 as an upgrade and that out of the points calc, but there are loads of points left However, if you run around in an 80 inch coiler tax exempt V8 you will have so much grey or black you'll sink in a instant if things go wrong......forget "MOTs and "I mentioned it to my insurers....." the paper its all written on will prob become worthless. One of the key reasons I cut the Hybrid up - too much grey ...........too much risk - .........for me You pays yer money ..................etc If you thinks its iffy it prob is,........... the more you are worried ..............then the more you should be Its not a definative science,............... you have to think about it overall, Your trayback rear overhang chopped engine and portal axle changed 90 is a neon sign trouble for NON SVAd trucks, .....................why not just get it legal via an SVA ? There again some will alwyas just stick head in sand with 'Larlar headphones' up to max volume Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 So are Land Rover people more honest, or just targeted by the DVLA? A L-R is far more easily modified due to the construction that a normal car without detriment to safety (infact for any Series L-R any change will be an improvement on the original). Yet you will not find a single Mark 1 or 11 Ford Escort Rally car with coil spring suspension and the relevant chassis mods with a Q plate. Even Colin McRae's new car has full independant supension (Sierra) new Gearbox, Engine, Axles plus chassis mods but no Q plate. Rant over now back to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I'd say most of the trouble stems from tax exempt 2A's that look like a new 90 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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