O/T: LRM Magazine

[missingsid]

Interesting the way this thread is splitting into two camps.

Normaly I sit in the "Tough it's off rroad" camp and any damage to my motor I repair".

However the two points I raised I feel make a difference.

First again, it was not a pay day where when you get stuck anyone pullls you out, if this is a halfwit then xpect a big bill. This was an organised event with official only marshals and the organisers would have had (for Heallth and Safety / insurance reasons) to have completed a risk assesment. David did not choose his marshal from a list of people with credentials, he had what the company would have stated were safe expert marshals. This one clearly was not, therefore they have failed to deliver the service they charged for, period.

Second, if evereybody was screaming at the guy to stop, why the f*&k didn't he, a death could have beenn close to happening and that really should make the organisers VERY concerned but does not seem to?

If I had witnesses then this is how I would personally start, leagaly I have no idea.

Good luck but personally I would persue it, especially if they sugested insurance up front, they have admitted liability. First rule in an accident "Don't admit anything" there's a reason insurance companies request this. Maybe this is why they backtracked?

[Guest WALFY]

just been talking to a freind, who's a solicitor, you do have a few problems...

As all the marshals were volunteers, thus 'unpaid' unfortunatly you dont have any foundation at all, you cannot sue a volunteer, and you cant sue LRM as they wernt employing them..

..and im sorry to say it BUT.. you were out in a vehicle that wasnt yours.. > So you were in a vehicle that was unfamiler to you ? > yes as it isnt yours > so you attempt a hard section of the course in a vehicle that isnt really suitable and your unfamiler with... And you were given a option to avoid it...

This is why more and more off road sites close in the Uk, because of daft arguments like this, in the end there was no one to blame except yourself, sorry to be harsh, and i dont want to offend you but this is the reality and how the courts will look at it.

Some of us work very hard to build and maintain places for YOU to go and enjoy yourself, we make no money at all, your quite happy to moan that you have no where to go, but will sue in a bat of a eyelash..

You say unpaid. It doesn't have to be cash to be payment. Did any of the marshalls drive the offroad circuit when they weren't marshalling? If so did they pay the 10 quid or whatever it was. If not then you were rewarded for your time and effort. Therefore you were paid. If you look at insurance for your car there are questions that you are asked about "hire or reward". ie being paid for a service wether money or something else.

As for not being familiar with the vehicle is horse poo. What happens if he sold it to his dad the month before and had previously owned it for 10yrs. As for the incident tat is totaly seperate from the recovery. Yes it is a by product of but not related. If you get stuck in a section then the marshalls are there to ensure the SAFETY and wellbeing of all users. By stopping further use untill the section is clear again. You are right to assume that they are competent and trained, or any old tom dick and harry will turn up and be a marshall.

At work we/I do risk assessments all the time. Here risk would of been assessed and the way to lesson the rik is to have trained/competent recovery marshalls. In this instance to be deemed competent you need quals AND experience. By the sounds of it the marshall either neither.

As for not suing LRM because they "employ" volunteers is rubbish. You/me/they paid to use the offroad course, therefore we paid for a service, so someone is entitled to be looked after with due care and attention during that period. Duty of Care springs to mind.

Chris

Have LRM contacted any of the marshals since this incident and what have they said. I realise you could incriminate yourself here so I don't really expect an answer but it would be nice to get 1.

Another point the post should of been titled RECOVERY INCIDENT or something similar and not mention LRM

[Jos]

Hi guys,

....

I'm having the disclaimer looked over by my uncle (he's a solicitor) as from what I remember from my Law lectures at University you cannot exclude liability for negligence.

....

My two pence worth:

You can't exclude liability for negligence or misfeasance (and a blanket exclusion that covers these will be struck down in it's entirety, not subject to a lesser construction), you don't need a contract or agreement for a duty of care to arise, the fact someone has done something for free doesn't mean they can't be sued for it, there's an agency question as regards the marshall and the magazine, and it is impossible to give anything approaching sensible legal advice without a complete understanding of what happened. But if you did a law degree and your uncle is a solicitor you must know all this, so why are you asking the forum for legal advice?

I'm sorry to hear that your RR got damaged though.

Jos.

[trainspotter]

Sounds like LRM have done you up the botty sideways with a broom handle.

If you don't want to repair it don't take it offroad. By simply signing the waiver you are implying that you realise that there is a risk of damage and you accept that.

Sorry to say it but your mate must be a bit of a mug

[Roverdrive]

For LRM to offer repair, and then deny responsibility, it sounds as if they have also had their trousers taken down by their insurers, who may refuse to cover them for the very reasons mentioned in the thread above. Untrained marshals etc etc.

I am afraid I am in the "you f*ck it you fix it" camp on this one. While the damage was wildly excessive in this case, you will nearly always scratch the paint at least on a play day type event, and if it isn't your motor in the first place you are daft to risk it.

[Chris123]

Off-roading should be seen a form of motorsport (even if it's not competitive), and the first rule of motorsport has to be not to use a vehicle you can't afford to repair (however it's damaged). Or take out specific insurance.

If it was any person who happened to around who recovered you, then there probably wouldn't be a case. But it appears that as this guy was a marshall and wearing a "badge" then there suddenly is one?

I agree with a quick kick in the marshalls ****, and a lesson learnt. Hopefully though the organisers and the marshall have learnt a lesson from this too, as it could have ended up in a nasty accident harming someone, and that's probably the important bit, not a lump of metal.

[101nut]

I don't quite understand where LRM currently stand in all of this. Whether they accept liability or not is irrelevant - surely it should currently be the insurance company covering the event dealing with the claim not LRM themselves ... assuming they were insured correctly of course.

AndyG