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Discovery 2 Axles


Aragorn
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Anyone got any links or info on fitting Disco2 axles to a defender.

From what ive found out it seems they're finding their way onto comp safari type builds and im looking for some info on what exactly is done.

I'd probably be looking at keeping the defender suspension setup and modifying the axles to suit, the front looks as tho it might bolt streight up with some spacers in the radius arms but rear will probably require some welding

any info much appreciated

Cheers

Kevin

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Anyone got any links or info on fitting Disco2 axles to a defender.

From what ive found out it seems they're finding their way onto comp safari type builds and im looking for some info on what exactly is done.

I'd probably be looking at keeping the defender suspension setup and modifying the axles to suit, the front looks as tho it might bolt streight up with some spacers in the radius arms but rear will probably require some welding

any info much appreciated

Cheers

Kevin

i would have thought your time would be better spent putting on some non-rover hypoid diff axles. ashcroft do nice cv's and shafts for the d2 axles now, but you're still stuck with the rover centre, so not really gaining much. be worth getting a pair of patrol or 'cruiser axles if you have to change brackets on d2 axles to get them to fit a defender. in favour of the cruiser ones, you can get replacement shafts and cv's (like the ashcroft ones for rovers) from longfield. i don't think any special steel ones exist for gq or gu patrols yet just shriinking a ring round the bell, but i think the diffs are bigger and they may be a bit cheaper in the uk. i daresay someone with experience of this can fill you in further if you are interested.

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The racing boys use the D2 axles for a number of reasons but speed of repair is one of them.

they do bend as well in the racing enviroment but if you only challenging wit the truck I doubt you would bend them.

There possibly a bit stronger that RRC style axles.

I was planning to do the same as you but got talked out of it.

if your looking at Racing the toyota and Nissan axles are, from the resurch I did 25 kg heavier than LR and will give some unsprung weight problems.

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I'd probably be looking at keeping the defender suspension setup and modifying the axles to suit

Er why? (apart from the slightly wider track) The suspension setup is half the reason they get fitted to comp safari motors. Even if you don't use the Watt's linkage the DiscoII arms improve the handling over defender style. In fact it's not that uncommon to fit DiscoII arms (with panhard rods front and rear) to defender/RRC/disco axles.

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yet just shriinking a ring round the bell, but i think the diffs are bigger and they may be a bit cheaper in the uk. i daresay someone with experience of this can fill you in further if you are interested.

Probably best look on a gay forum :D;)

Mo

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Mark90 - im interested in the handling benefits of the D2 suspension setup: can you possibly tell me what the differences are?

from what i could see the front was very similar but the rear utilises radius arm and watts linkage instead of the trailing arms and A frame

i initially didnt fancy the idea of taking a brand new chassis and welding stuff to it but if theres handling benefits to be had it might be useful! Seen as im going to be purchasing a new chassis anyway might it be possible to get the chassis manufacturers to use D2 mountings when assembling it?!

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Mark90 - im interested in the handling benefits of the D2 suspension setup: can you possibly tell me what the differences are?

Well I'm no suspension guru but as I see it it comes down to the arms...

DiscoII arms are longer than defender ones. It long been considered that longer arms are better for speed events over rough ground, the axle seems to respond more smoothly and obviously through a straighter arc. Pete Rowe has from long before it became fashionable had very long arms on his racer, they almost meet in the middle (100" wheelbase I think) and that is very smooth over the rough ground for a live axle racer.

Then there is the width. LR went from narrow to wide arms on the RRC in the early 80's I think it was and then also on the defender with the 300tdi. These wider arms tended to improve the handling, less flex I guess. DiscoII arms are wider again. Narrow arms seem better if you want lots of articulation though, which is not what we're talking about here.

Thirdly the transversly bolted chassis end bushes seem to work better then the twisting of the standard defender setup.

Finally, (although this also applies to using standard defender front radius arms all round) radius arms and a panhard rod (or Watt's linkage but that's notoriously difficult to setup well) on the back is a big improvement in handling compared to the A-frame and lower traling links and is a much older mod in comp safari circles than DiscoII suspension.

My mates latest racer that I co-drive in has DiscoII arms and panhard rod front and rear, but these have been fitted to 'standard' defender/disco/RRC axles.

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This really has me interested... Whats the drawback in using this set up? Is articulation affected??

Compared to a standard defender possibly not at the front as it has radius arms alreay but the back would probably loose some articulation if you went from A-frame to radius arms. I have not seen anything set up for big articulation that used DiscoII arms. But generally better handling and better articulation don't go hand in hand, quite the opposite in fact. The transversely bolted chassis end bushes might be better than the usual defender style if they don't rip (like panhard rod bushes) but the width of the arms would hinder twist at the axle end. However if it's articulation you are after radius arms and panhard rod is really not the best way to go.

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the better handling etc sounds good however im still unsure about modifying the chassis

the primary reason of fitting the D2 parts was to get better brakes and allow fitment of the later wheels to allow a bigger range of alloy choice and hopefully attaining a little more strength, i also recon the twin ball joints in place of the swivels is a bit better for road use, which is going to be the primary use of the truck, and therefore additional handling benefits would also be nice

can anyone perhaps give me some details on what exactly needs done to the chassis? If the front and rear uses transverse bolted arms (which microcat seems to suggest is the case) the mounts would need to be changed on the defender, and if the arms are longer they they'd also need moved backwards which may or may not even be possible due to the lengths of the chassis rails etc What about the PAS setup? will the defender steering connect up with the d2 hubs? any other info would be much appreciated!

i have emailed designa chassis asking if its possible for them to build it but it may be that cost becomes prohibitive.

Thanks

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Do the road handeling benifits come from the traversly mounts on the chassy or in the use of the radius arms?

Could I expect to see a similar improvement in handeling if I fitting a set of defender front radius arms on the back?

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On my comp safari racer (which will be dragged up from the depths of this forum very soon), I have used standard axles and modified radius arms front and rear. I machind a sleeve to go over the end of the radius arm and then used a machined bit of tube welded to that to hold a D2 bush. The chassis was modified by cutting off the standard mounts and using plate to build a double shear mount to take the 16mm bolt. The arms now have a sligthly longer effective length which helps travel and articulation ( I regularly max out 14" shocks (probably limited to about 12") with the extended radius arms helping this. The axle end bushes continue to get knocked out regularly, but the chassis ends are still in perfect condition from the day they were installed with 3.5 safaris completed (standard chassis bushes can get knocked out in 1/2 an event).

In short, the fabrication work is pretty simple (you'll also need to change the front panhard rod mount, but it is simply a case of welding a new bracket, which I think is availasble from LR, but pretty simple to make otherwise), and you'll have an arguably better handling suspension system (especially on the road). It will be less maintenance intensive, and if it wasn't an improvement, then why did LR bother?

Toby

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On my comp safari racer (which will be dragged up from the depths of this forum very soon), I have used standard axles and modified radius arms front and rear.

sorry to clarify some points, have you used standard defender radius arms on D2 axles? or kept the original defender axles and modified the defender arms to use d2 bushes?

u also state modifying the front panhard mounting, if youve used defender axles why does this need modified? and surely the rear would also need a panhard rod fitting if youve removed the a frame?

any pics?

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For anyone wanting to see a range of mods along these lines (defender radius arms and panhard rod on the back, discoII arms and panhard rods all round on 'standard' axles, discoII axles and suspension graffted on to RRC chassis, etc, etc) it would be worth getting along to a comp safari event and taking a look under a few of the vehicles. Baden Hall next weekend should have a good range of vehicles there as it is a joint event between AWDC and NORC.

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sorry to clarify some points, have you used standard defender radius arms on D2 axles? or kept the original defender axles and modified the defender arms to use d2 bushes?

u also state modifying the front panhard mounting, if youve used defender axles why does this need modified? and surely the rear would also need a panhard rod fitting if youve removed the a frame?

any pics?

No I've kept standard Defender axles and modified standad defender radius arms to take D2 bushes, which you obviously won't need to do, as they'll already be there. I just wanted to point out that the actul job of building mounts onto the D1 chassis will not be difficult.

As for modifying the panhard mount, I had to because I don't actually have a chassis (just spaceframe) but you will need to for the D2 axles, as the panhard rod mount is mde from pressed steel an is roughly triangular in shape - go to the supermarket and crawl around under one to see what I mean, but i may be easie rjus tto make you own, and cheaper.

I've used a panhard rod on the back too, but you'd be better off using the watts linkage, as it ensures that the axle moves vertically and not in an arc, because again LR won't have done it if it wasn't better. On both front and rear mounts, ensure your vertical distance from the chassis is the same as on a D2, so that you roll centres are as intended by LR, which will give the best handing.

As for photos, there are some in this link I think, http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=11626 otherwise I can take some specific ones for you. If you aqre near Devon come and have a look if you want, I'm just south of Exeter.

Toby

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