Anti-wrap bars - my solution

[FridgeFreezer]

I can't take much credit for this - some of the bits I can take credit for are some upside-down welding that is not my finest work so I'll keep quiet and say that I did make a fair proportion of this stuff.

Thanks as ever to Jez & The Stig. Design credit is shared between Pirate4x4, Jez and myself.

I won't go over the design process, and it should be noted that (especially at the front) this has been made to fit, not necessarily made to any sort of optimum geometry calculations. Initial tests are good, whereas before the front end would bounce when traction was lost, now it just climbs flat and steady. This weekend will see some proper testing - fingers crossed!

A picture tells a thousand words:

Needs more mud though

The axle ends are RR trailing arm bushes - used because they're cheap, and Stig knocks out mounting slugs for them for Jez's excellent trailing arms so we didn't have to get the crayons out front joint is a heim (rod end) but the idea of using a RR A-frame ball joint, trailing arm front bush, johnny joint etc. was discussed. Depending on your articulation a normal bush may do.

At the rear, the existing x-member was plated and used to hang the shackle from, at the front a new x-member made from 50x50 box was tucked under the front of the sump as I couldn't see an easy way to make it work otherwise. This has made the front arm rather short, but it doesn't seem to be a problem so far.

[Diff]

I can't take much credit for this - some of the bits I can take credit for are some upside-down welding that is not my finest work so I'll keep quiet and say that I did make a fair proportion of this stuff.

Thanks as ever to Jez & The Stig. Design credit is shared between Pirate4x4, Jez and myself.

I won't go over the design process, and it should be noted that (especially at the front) this has been made to fit, not necessarily made to any sort of optimum geometry calculations. Initial tests are good, whereas before the front end would bounce when traction was lost, now it just climbs flat and steady. This weekend will see some proper testing - fingers crossed!

A picture tells a thousand words:

Needs more mud though

The axle ends are RR trailing arm bushes - used because they're cheap, and Stig knocks out mounting slugs for them for Jez's excellent trailing arms so we didn't have to get the crayons out front joint is a heim (rod end) but the idea of using a RR A-frame ball joint, trailing arm front bush, johnny joint etc. was discussed. Depending on your articulation a normal bush may do.

At the rear, the existing x-member was plated and used to hang the shackle from, at the front a new x-member made from 50x50 box was tucked under the front of the sump as I couldn't see an easy way to make it work otherwise. This has made the front arm rather short, but it doesn't seem to be a problem so far.

Nice job John.

I had hoped to see you and the 109 at Hogmore last weekend - plenty of fun had by all!

Regards

Diff

[David Sparkes]

If I've understood correctly, this is an anti-tramp bar, or at least that's what they were called when I bought some to go on a leaf sprung car.

Without them the leaves distorted and the axle 'tramped' as the power was put down.

But whatever, if you are happy with anti-wrap, that's OK.

[FridgeFreezer]

yes, it could be called an anti-tramp bar, the two are kinda interchangable as the spring wraps causing tramp.

Diff - I had hoped to go buy wallet said no I will be at Brick Kiln this Sunday, at 7S the weekend after that and on the London 2 Brighton so plenty of chance to say Hi

[RPR]

I regard this with great interest! Any shots of the front?

Nice axles!!!!

[bill van snorkle]

Good stuff John. A pic of the front would be nice. I 'm impressed that you actually found space up front.

Bill.

[dollythelw]

cart sprung hurse.....

[FridgeFreezer]

Front is close (and tricky to photograph) but it fits and seems to work:

[istruggle2gate11]

Looks good chap,

just out of interest, what prop / uj's you using?

[FridgeFreezer]

Propshaft clinic HD ones

[oddballrovers]

Front is close (and tricky to photograph) but it fits and seems to work:

Hi fridge.

Looks very nice, how much ahve you tested this setup.

Ole.

[FridgeFreezer]

So far I've done a couple of steep but firm climbs (on dry grass), Sunday I'm taking it off-road properly so will test it then.

[oddballrovers]

So far I've done a couple of steep but firm climbs (on dry grass), Sunday I'm taking it off-road properly so will test it then.

Hi Fridge..

So how was it sunday???

Regards

Ole.

[FridgeFreezer]

So how was it sunday???

Canceled due to F&M precautions is how it was contented myself with a spectating visit to Hogmoor but wasn't able to do any driving beyond the car park, not being a member and all.

So, the first outing in anger will be 7S next weekend - nothing like a nice easy test-drive, eh?

[geoffbeaumont]

Canceled due to F&M precautions is how it was contented myself with a spectating visit to Hogmoor but wasn't able to do any driving beyond the car park, not being a member and all.

So, the first outing in anger will be 7S next weekend - nothing like a nice easy test-drive, eh?

A walk in the park given your idea of a gentle test run

[FridgeFreezer]

A walk in the park given your idea of a gentle test run

It's not a trend I want to encourage though

[RPR]

Thanks for the pics. Looks good. That shackle on the front is interesting. Looking forward to your comments post test.

[bill van snorkle]

Week end's been and gone.How did the testing go ?

Bill.

[FridgeFreezer]

Brilliant - it climbed flawlessly, and there are some long hills at 7S. I'm really rather chuffed to say the least

Next time I'll top the oil up beforehand, the light came on on a couple of climbs where I was going up a very steep bit at very low RPM

Before you ask - I didn't get any pictures 'cos my co-driver dropped out last-minute, and my digi camera got a bit moist during the EDIS testing I'm sure others have piccies though.

[oddballrovers]

Brilliant - it climbed flawlessly, and there are some long hills at 7S. I'm really rather chuffed to say the least

Next time I'll top the oil up beforehand, the light came on on a couple of climbs where I was going up a very steep bit at very low RPM

Before you ask - I didn't get any pictures 'cos my co-driver dropped out last-minute, and my digi camera got a bit moist during the EDIS testing I'm sure others have piccies though.

Hi Fridge.

Jolly good to hear, while we have been waiting for the "propper" test drive results I have been thinking on how you have sorted/figured out the geometry off the bars/ shakles.

It looks on the pics like the short bar is using a long shakle and the long one is using a short one!!! erhmm... explanation please.

Kind regards

Ole.

Ps Having seen the Pics in the 7S tread it no wonder you got some mal function with the digi cam

[FridgeFreezer]

explanation please.

Err, that's where they fitted!

At the front I had to tuck the x-member up under the sump, so the arm had to be short and the shackle long. At the rear, I picked up on the original x-member so a longer bar but a shorter shackle.

[RPR]

John,

Well impressed with the anti-wrap bars. I haven't done it b/c the 3.5 doesn't seem to put enough power out with conservative driving for it to be a problem, but the diminution of front axle tramp is very interesting and is rekindling my interest. BTW, I think your execution is a step up from the Pirate Booty Fab example

Have you addressed your wheel arch issue? These may not meet aesthetic standards, but at @ 25 quid for 10 foot lengths, they may meet other standards They bend (and serve as light tree fenders!) and are easy to mount and replace as necessary.

Pacer Flexy Flares at Autobarn

[FridgeFreezer]

Well impressed with the anti-wrap bars. I haven't done it b/c the 3.5 doesn't seem to put enough power out with conservative driving for it to be a problem, but the diminution of front axle tramp is very interesting and is rekindling my interest. BTW, I think your execution is a step up from the Pirate Booty Fab example

It's knocked tramp on the head, both on and off-road. It power-slides very smoothly B)

I did a lot of climbing and descending at 7S, with varying degrees of wellington and it was always smooth.

No I haven't addressed my wheel-arches yet, I think step 1 could be a pair of Tomcat-style front wings as they are cut higher whilst still looking LR. It's still a money thing though - I don't have any, and if I do I'd rather spend it on petrol to go playing

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

No I haven't addressed my wheel-arches yet, I think step 1 could be a pair of Tomcat-style front wings as they are cut higher whilst still looking LR. It's still a money thing though - I don't have any, and if I do I'd rather spend it on petrol to go playing

Don't forget I have that Jig unit I made when I had the hybrid that will / can put a '90 wheel arch shape' flare with internal return into your wings in ANY position

Nige

[FridgeFreezer]

Finally getting round to some post-Ladoga servicing, the setup's been on the truck for a year, done a fair few road & track miles as well as a good bit of off-roading.

I knew the bushes needed doing on the front, so here's today's progress:

Here you can see the short front arm next to the long rear arm, and the comparative shackle lengths:

I think the bushes are dead!

And the rear axle too:

But the shackle bushes are still perfick:

The Heims have a fair bit of play in them, by Heim standards (if they were on the steering they'd be ditched by now), I may replace them if I can find my box of spares.

I have new red (hard) polybushes to go in place of the originals, usually a bad idea but in this application you really don't want much, if any, movement in those bushes at the axle end.