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Ashcroft uprated CV's


white90

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in the same way I believe the sales talk on Maxi Drive products ARB's etc

as for destruction testing it is of intrest but in the real world of useage how do you measure a 90/110/Rangie/Discovery jumping and landing on a grippy surface? or the vehicle stood on its nose all the weight on the front axle and trying to reverse out? Also the vast weight differences from 1.5-3tonnes what a difference this must make.

As it turns out the Maxi Drive shafts have been in for over 2years and there are no marks on them whatsovever no spline wear/twisting so they have proved to be a good investment.

Suppliers such as Ashcroft/Maxi Drive/ARB are reputable companies that aren't here to make a few ££ then vanish.

The titanic was made of greater quality materials - it still sank. I thought we were discussing CVs so Maxidrive shafts (which I think are superb) and ARBs (which I also think are ok) aren't really of interest. or are we going to wander off topic as we did on Andy post about portal axles? ;)

Im not sure what relavance here today gone tomorrow has to do with anything but personally I agree its comforting to know that a reputable company is behind the sale of a product, having said that Dave (unless Im completely wrong) isnt making these CVs he's buying them in - so do I have faith in an unknown manufacturer - no

if the question is so irrelevant then why is Dave in the process of comparative testing anyway?

Would I like to see destruction testing with comparative figures - yes.

I can see the attraction of trying new toys, I dont need to beef my axles up but I am interested in the subject, I have a lot of friends who dont speak English that are running Rover axles that would like to hear about a strength gain but when you consider how much (comparatively) a CV costs them in terms of wages you will understand the need for concrete proof of relative strength gains.

Im not condoning or condemming anyone thats bought Daves CVs, Im just interested :P

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Jez,

I agree mate, thats why i wont say 'great'

until i've got a few events in the bag nice and safe.......

But, So far so good.

Jim :)

Ps: Got a Man who wants to do Ladoga next year, Can i pass on your number? He's not an Idiot :P

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Jim - thats the feedback Im interested in mate, kick em in the potatoes for a good stint and let me know :D

I'd still like to see a comparative test though :)

No worries - pass the number on, if he's not an idiot why is he going? :lol: tell him he needs to get his skates on, 1/3 of the field from 15 countries have already booked, Ive got the forms and regs in English or Russian so fire over an email addy and I will send them over

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I don't even have lockers yet never mind CVs but my thoughts on whether I would buy them would be:

I would be interested to see comparative figures e.g. a std CV breaks at x lb ft torque, an Ashcroft one breaks at 3x that

because....

if you are a habitual CV-breaker (which I'm not) and know roughly how much abuse you have to give a normal one to break it, then if you know it should be able to take roughly 3 times that level of abuse (or whatever the actual increase in strength is) then you know more or less what its limits are (maybe it is no longer the weakest link and won't break - no idea)

If there are no figures then if you needed them I guess you'd buy them anyway on the basis that anything that improved on the standard item would have to be a good thing! But it would be interesting to see test results and to know roughly what you were getting.

As for me ... how much does 2 x ARBs 1 x compressor full set of halfshafts, a pair of CVs and a set of drive members cost? Dunno but more £ than I have spare at the moment anyway :(

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As for me ... how much does 2 x ARBs 1 x compressor full set of halfshafts, a pair of CVs and a set of drive members cost? Dunno but more £ than I have spare at the moment anyway :(

A lot!

:angry:

Luckily enough I'd just need the CVs and front shafts actually

:rolleyes:

But...

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What is the best standard axle to start with? As i want to fit ARB's then upgrade the rest as it breaks. But do not want to fit a 10 spline ARB then have to change it if i uprade to stronger shafts if you know what i mean. So i would like to start with the best standard axle first.

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What is the best standard axle to start with? As i want to fit ARB's then upgrade the rest as it breaks. But do not want to fit a 10 spline ARB then have to change it if i uprade to stronger shafts if you know what i mean. So i would like to start with the best standard axle first.

Unimog U1300. You wont need an ARB... ;)

Sorry couldn't resist! :unsure:

If you don't want to buy everything twice, obviously don't start with 10 spline with the aim of upgrading it to 24 or doing something interesting instead...

Al.

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We take testing quite seriously as some of you are aware, I very soon hope to add to our web site details of a hydraulic destructive testing rig we have made which will give conclusive comparison data on stock and aftermarket halfshafts and CV's. I think this will make very interesting reading, if you have any left over KAM, GKN, Maxidrive or other shafts just send them along for us to break!

no point testing "left overs"

need nice new shiny stuff

;)

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Astro _Al that was a great joke :unsure:

Which part do you think was a joke? :huh:

Personally, while I'm all for upgrades like this - and I'm sure Dave's is gonna be a good one, though I'd love to see testing figures too - in the end you are limited by the sheer volume available.

I honestly doubt Rover axles can be pushed far enough to cope with big engines and tyres, and extreme use. Hence my point, if you want an unbreakable axle, and to only pay for it once, look elsewhere.

It wasn't a joke, it was honestly my opinion. If you can upgrade the entire axle for less money, isn't it worth considering? - that's all I meant.

Al.

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Okay. I was talking of standard Land rover axles. I think Jez may of suggested Unimog axles before when i was asking. I am all for fitting the strongest axles first. But as far as im aware Unimog axles are a major job to fit and with renovating a house i do not have that much time. Do the portal axles affect top speed? I have thought about 101 axles but dont like the price of a disk brake conversion and have not been able to gain that much info on them.

Any other ideas?

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Thats what Im asking for Will - results not conjecture, If Dave has built the test rig and already has comparative data then publish it, do you have his results? if so put them up here :D

I was in at Ashcrofts today picking up a gearbox and had the chance to see the Test Rig, a well put together bit of kit. The problem being, finding a shaft that is stronger than the new CV, so as to get the correct break figure. I understand shafts are being made at the moment, which may be stronger than the CV time will tell. It must be infuriating when you want to break something and it wont let go.

Peter

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Ben - my suggestion would be start with a set of a 24spline axle using AEU2522 as its CV, you can mod Range Rover axles to accept AEUs but its a slight fiddle, start with an easy base and you can mod one stage at a time, 110CSW axles are worth hunting down... Gotts have a few in the stores rack if you cant find any easily

far be it from me to recommend portals - Ive got enough on my plate *grabs tin hat - passes stirring stick back to Al*

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Okay. I was talking of standard Land rover axles. I think Jez may of suggested Unimog axles before when i was asking. I am all for fitting the strongest axles first. But as far as im aware Unimog axles are a major job to fit and with renovating a house i do not have that much time. Do the portal axles affect top speed? I have thought about 101 axles but dont like the price of a disk brake conversion and have not been able to gain that much info on them.

Any other ideas?

*Thanks for the stick, Jez* ...

Understood. It's just easy to get stuck in the 'Rover Part' mentality - where it seems your only options in life are what came out of a factory in Solihull. The world is full of wierd and wonderful axles, it's just nice to consider the options. Especially if cost is an issue.

Yes portals will generally affect top speed (since there are 2 points of ration reduction), but you can compensate for this by changing (for example) the transfer box ratio, and as they can safely cope with much larger tyres, this can also help a lot with gearing. Anyway, my intent wasn't to start a portal thread (although the portal thread itself got dragged off topic, so maybe this is just revenge! :)

If you don't like the 101 disc brakes you'll never get to blingy CVs, special shafts, ARBs and whatever, hence my suggestion of a solution where you don't need to spend all that. Portals aren't for everyone, but maybe one or two who keep upgrading their axles and then pushing tyre size, engine power etc up again to fill the capacity of their axles again could benefit from looking farther afield. There are, of course, beefier non-portal axles too - Toyota, Ford, Dana... Lots. Portals aren't the only option.

If you can afford aftermarket Rover-bling, then fine there are options, like that discussed here and it's nice not to have to change everything, but forcing something to the edges of its capacity is always expensive compared to running something larger at a nominal level - same with engines or anything, cost goes up exponentially as you approach the boundaries of it's performance.

Al. :)

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Im not sure what relavance here today gone tomorrow has to do with anything but personally I agree its comforting to know that a reputable company is behind the sale of a product, having said that Dave (unless Im completely wrong) isnt making these CVs he's buying them in - so do I have faith in an unknown manufacturer - no

if the question is so irrelevant then why is Dave in the process of comparative testing anyway?

Would I like to see destruction testing with comparative figures - yes.

The relevant point I was trying to make is.

you and me along with others have purchased ARB/Maxidrive products without test/data sheets to apparently prove thier worth, as Such a CV made from stronger materials is expected to be stronger than standard they come with a guarentee, no other CV I have purchased comes with one nor would I expect one on a standard part.

The Test rig will stop the hype around aftermarket shafts etc.

I don't think(stand to be corrected) the test rig was built to prove the CV's worth..

I'm looking forward to the test rigs results as I have a fair few ££ invested in My axles.

Don't worry about on/off topic as when we are all finished I'll put this in the Tech archive and tidy it up as the posts on here are valuable info/ideas/suggestions/opinions.

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To be quite honest it is a comfortable long distance green laner/off roader. The next item i would like to fit is a rear locker and possibly a front one but whilst im doing this im trying to think of the future so i do not have to buy items twice. It is my second car and is used for running around, so it does not have to be at the technical limit of off road design.

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The relevant point I was trying to make is.

you and me along with others have purchased ARB/Maxidrive products without test/data sheets to apparently prove thier worth, as Such a CV made from stronger materials is expected to be stronger than standard they come with a guarentee, no other CV I have purchased comes with one nor would I expect one on a standard part.

The Test rig will stop the hype around aftermarket shafts etc.

The difference to me is that Maxidrive/ARB etc were having the pooh knocked out of them for a loooong time before I splashed out the hard earned - I really would like to see a successful product that addresses one of the Landrover weakpoints but Im keen to see that demonstrated, couldnt the manufacturer provide the failure data?

I agree that a CV made from a stronger material is expected to be stronger - I just want to see that expectations are met with a corresponding rise in performance - surely not too much to ask?

I wonder whos halfshaft have been over-hyped? any bets? :ph34r:

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I have always considered the Cv as the weak link in the transmission, and as such we have strenghtened every thing else, (diffs, half shafts) , my concern is what will be next on the list of "must haves" when the cv's stop breaking, the cv is accessable and relatively easy to repair and it pays to have a spare or two behind the front seat, What if the last piece in the jigsaw of bits to fail turns out the be the centre diff? if one of these goes clonk during an event then the chances of effecting a repair are less than a simple cv :rolleyes:

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The R&P will be the weak point pegged or not.

The same thing has just happened with the Toyota crowd. They have built 4340/300M CVs and 4340 shafts and people are not breaking them. The R&Ps are now the first thing to go. This makes everyone happy as R&P strength is long since well understood from rear axle use.

Basically, this should make the front axle as strong as a built rear axle, which is a good thing, IMHO. You just need to understand the limits of the center section and spline size. Realistically this should get you basically unbreakable up to 35" maybe 36" (with a pegged diff).

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Wot you have got to remember chaps is that most poelpe are looking to strengthen there axles againist 'Simex' attack and are not intrested in Boggers (Sorry Pete)

The biggest reason for this is that 35's go on dolly dimple, whereas 36's up wards require...shall we say , Larger steps??

So cure the probs and, Hey presto....

If like Jez and Al you want more horses and bigger rubber bits, start looking (As they say) at axles designed for that kit.

If you want to play on 35 or similar stick to rover cos there nice and light (By comparsion) and parts are easly available (Wheel bearing etc)

Suspension is bolt on and no one will try to stop you playing.

I am, and will continue to run 24 spline Defender (Same as Range and Disco after94') The earlier halfshafts are stronger, Hence David makine the new cvs to suit late type stub axles but earlier style halshafts with 24 spline inner (Confused?)

But to be honest, IF, you drive sensibly and except the fact you have Rover cvs and don't anthing really silly, you wont have a problem.

IF, however, you won't to drive like a P****K (Me included :P ) Upgrade and except the fact that you probaly will not be able to go much bigger in tyre size.

Basiclly enjoy yourself (But don't go 10 spline :ph34r: )

Jim :)

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I'm running 10 spline axles front and rear on my 90. I used to run grizzly claws and broke a couple of shafts and CV's. Since I've put my 35 simex and twin ARB's on I've not broken anything. It may be because I'm paranoid about breaking stuff that I radicaly changed the way I drive. I used to be put the hammer down and the more red mist the better. Hence I stuck it on it's roof at a JBS event. Now I try to think things through a bit more. Or it could be that my co pilot refused to ride with me till I changed the way I drove.

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*Thanks for the stick, Jez* ...

Understood. It's just easy to get stuck in the 'Rover Part' mentality - where it seems your only options in life are what came out of a factory in Solihull. The world is full of wierd and wonderful axles, it's just nice to consider the options. Especially if cost is an issue.

Yes portals will generally affect top speed (since there are 2 points of ration reduction), but you can compensate for this by changing (for example) the transfer box ratio, and as they can safely cope with much larger tyres, this can also help a lot with gearing. Anyway, my intent wasn't to start a portal thread (although the portal thread itself got dragged off topic, so maybe this is just revenge! :)

If you don't like the 101 disc brakes you'll never get to blingy CVs, special shafts, ARBs and whatever, hence my suggestion of a solution where you don't need to spend all that. Portals aren't for everyone, but maybe one or two who keep upgrading their axles and then pushing tyre size, engine power etc up again to fill the capacity of their axles again could benefit from looking farther afield. There are, of course, beefier non-portal axles too - Toyota, Ford, Dana... Lots. Portals aren't the only option.

If you can afford aftermarket Rover-bling, then fine there are options, like that discussed here and it's nice not to have to change everything, but forcing something to the edges of its capacity is always expensive compared to running something larger at a nominal level - same with engines or anything, cost goes up exponentially as you approach the boundaries of it's performance.

Al. :)

I have just seen that Maddison 4x4 are now selling Dynatrac axles ready to go on Land rovers with Land rover ratios. A pair of Dana 60's should be fairly strong. Does anybody know how much these are going for? I would imagine not in my price range!

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I should imagine price wise somewhere between a kidney to an arm and a leg - just as heavy as a 404 axle, arguably not as strong, poorer turning circle than a 404 and with the same ground clearance as rover axle - Im struggling to find a justification for them

:(

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