Starting Problem

[sotal]

Sorted for the minute - need to do a bit of testing to make sure

[Guy H]

What was it?

[sotal]

Sorry I posted once - then it disappeared - very strange - then ran out of effort to type it again!

Not entirely sure what it was, I did a few bits and bobs before trying again with a jump start from another vehicle and it cracked straight up perfectly - instant start.

The only things I did between were, messing with the lift pump (fairly sure it was nothing to do with this) and taking off the two plugs which seem to go to the fuel injection pump (possibility)

Interestingly though I have found out that the fuel cut off solenoid is a bit pointless on the EDC engine, I have taken out the spring and plunger but it still turns off with the key because the fuel injection pump loses power. I've left the plunger and spring out for the minute so it's got one less thing to go wrong.

So I've narrowed it down to the pump itself stopping fuel, it was getting past the stop solenoid but not getting from the injection pump to the injectors, just not quite sure what it is, maybe it's down to the battery or maybe it's down to the wiring underneath the pump.

My personal thoughts are that the battery is a bit weak as it seems to go flat very quickly.

Since replacing the two dead glow plugs, it doesn't seem to be drawing as much current when the glow plugs are on and it seems to start perfectly when warm even when putting the glow plugs on, so I'm hoping that was part of the problem and now fixed will help to stop it flattening the battery as quick - maybe one of the dead glow plugs was causing a short when energized? The glow plug light illuminates every time now.

So all afternoon it has started properly, and in the correct way (without having to switch it off after glow plugs have been on)

So I've got my fingers crossed that it's now sorted but I'm hesitant as it could quite easily refuse to start in the morning

[sotal]

Well it fired up perfectly this morning - doing everything in the correct order (which it wouldn't before even when warm)

So fingers crossed it's all sorted.

Thanks for all the suggestions

[sotal]

damn, not quite perfect,

just went home for dinner - started up fine at work, drove home parked up and switched it off

30 minutes later came to start it, went to glow plugs when the light went out turned it to go and the starter spun happily away but no fuel, did the same again with the same result, so went back to my old trick of going straight past the glow plugs (ie turned it off waited a few seconds then started it straight up) and it burst into life.

Just can't figure out what's stopping the fuel - I presume it's got to be either something electrical going to the injection pump or an intermittent fault on the injection pump itself?

[Kev Baldwin]

I had very similar problems with an old 300Tdi Auto I had. Advancing the timing ever-so slightly was a tip given to me by Jeremy Fearn and was something that worked for me having already tried much of what you've already carried out. Apparently lazy starting is a very common fault on 300Tdi Auto Discos.

Remove the small circular plate that you see on the front of timing case secured with three 10mm bolts.

With the cover and paper gasket removed, slacken the three 10mm bolts you’ll now see on the circular plate inside the timing case.

Turn the large nut in the centre of the plate CLOCKWISE approx 5mm to advance the timing ever-so slightly.

Retighten the three bolts on the circular plate and go for a test drive before replacing the inspection cover.

After a short distance my ‘Check Engine’ warning light came on and the engine went into limp-home mode.

Jeremy Fearn had pre-warned me that if this happened, I’d been a little too generous with my 5mm. If this happens to you, loosen the three bolts and back off the large nut a fraction, tighten everything up and try it again.

Another trait mine displayed simialr to yours were the lazy battery symptoms. After fitting two batteries, the fault turned out to be an intermitent starter motor fault.

With lazy starting and a dodgy starter, the two problems compounded each other.

Hope this helps

Kev

[simes]

Hi, I`ve been nosing around here with a similar problem. I read about advancing the timing & thought I`d have a go this afternoon. What a difference!!!

I thought that it was all electronically controlled, But I guess the electronics don`t take over till it`s running.

Simes

[sotal]

Thanks for the replies guys, I've not had any problems with the battery and it's not a "lazy" starter as such, it seems to have a consistant fault. (I've fixed the reason the battery went flat - and it was the flat battery causing the starter to be slow at the time - so that's all sorted) but here's a bit of an update:

I think I've now given my disco enough testing and the results have been 100% consistant so I thought I'd see if anyone knows what the little problem I now have is caused by.

The Land Rover is a 1995 300tdi Auto ES EDC.

On cold mornings or when it's been left for quite a long time, then it starts exactly as I would expect it to. I put the key in turn it so the glow plug light comes on, wait till it goes out then start it up. Starts beautifully everytime. I can try without the glow plugs and it will start as long as it's not too cold but it will turn over lots of times and struggle before it fires up with a bit of smoke.

If the Disco is warm, ie just had a journey pulled up outside the shop and popped in for a few minutes, then start it up again, then if I have the glow plug light on for more than a split second then it will refuse to start, it will turn over very well but it won't get any fuel. If I turn the key as quickly as possible it will start straight up. If I forget and put the glow plug light on and it fails to start (which it will do 100% of the time) then all I have to do is turn the key all the way off and all teh way back again (as quickly as I like - I don't have to wait or anything)

As you can see it's not that much of a problem as I can start it now all the time, the only time I'm not sure what to do is when I've left it for about 3-4 hours, if the weather is warm it still might fail with glow plugs, but if it's gone cold it's better with the glow plugs.

Is there a temperature sensor somewhere which is causing me problems?

I've managed to get it to a point where I can replicate it every single time and I'm presuming it's down to temperature somewhere, it's like it's got a sensor to say "We don't need glow plugs now" but it's got mixed up and it's telling the electronic fuel pump "We don't need fuel"

Any ideas???