MegaSquirt/ Megajolt?

[Corrode Finger]

Soo, can anything(engines) be megasquirted?

Or do you need the vehicle to be injected?

Ie if its a carb motor, that never had injection - ie old tech, does one need to have special inlet manifolds made for accepting injectors etc?

Or can you only megajolt it? Thats the ignition side...... correct?

Besides make V8's run in water, what other benefits do you get?

Performance enhancement?

Also, can any modern distributorless car be used as a donor for the spark sides of things?

Does it work on diesel?

Hopefully someone can explain this in simple pop up book levels of tech.... please?

[FridgeFreezer]

Right then...

Soo, can anything(engines) be megasquirted?

It used to be the case that any even-fire spark-ignited engine could be squirted, however these days I'm pretty sure anything at all can be in some way or another.

Or do you need the vehicle to be injected?

You need injector(s) to inject the fuel, yes, but how you do it is very open to interpretation - on a Rover V8 you bolt on an EFi inlet manifold. On some cars you use a Weber/Holley 4-barrel carb manifold and bolt on a Throttle Body Injection (TBI) setup in place of the carb. On other cars, various solutions are doable, fro using bike throttle bodies, using manifolds from later models, glueing injector bungs into the inlet - none of it needs to be difficult.

Ie if its a carb motor, that never had injection - ie old tech, does one need to have special inlet manifolds made for accepting injectors etc?

See last answer - and check www.msruns.com for success stories for various models of car, you'll find a large number are engines that were never injected.

Or can you only megajolt it? Thats the ignition side...... correct?

MegaJolt is an ignition only cut-down MegaSquirt. If you want fuel & ignition the MegaSquirt does both in one, or can do just one or the other.

Besides make V8's run in water, what other benefits do you get? Performance enhancement?

Driveability, economy, reliability, tuneability, diagnostics, switchable fuel & spark maps (very handy for LPG), extras like rev limit, traction control, launch control, NOS control, electric fan control, shift lights, closed-loop idle/anti-stall, you can have a bling digital dashboard. Oh and going dizzyless does help waterproofing rather

Also, can any modern distributorless car be used as a donor for the spark sides of things?

For most parts, yes you can butcher anything for coil packs, crank sensors, leads. My ignition setup is all from Mondeos/Fiestas etc. For a V8 you'll need an EDIS-8 unit but I have a box of those and buying a laser-cut trigger wheel is far less ar$e-ache than making one.

Does it work on diesel?

Depends what you're doing with it - it can't (yet) run an electronic diesel engine (EG TD5) but people are working on it. It can be used to add water/LPG injection to a TDi and IIRC someone was looking at using it to talk to a Bosch electronically controlled injection pump.

Hopefully someone can explain this in simple pop up book levels of tech.... please?

Post a question and you'll get an answer

[istruggle2gate11]

Soo, can anything(engines) be megasquirted?

It used to be the case that any even-fire spark-ignited engine could be squirted, however these days I'm pretty sure anything at all can be in some way or another.

Or do you need the vehicle to be injected?

You need injector(s) to inject the fuel, yes, but how you do it is very open to interpretation - on a Rover V8 you bolt on an EFi inlet manifold. On some cars you use a Weber/Holley 4-barrel carb manifold and bolt on a Throttle Body Injection (TBI) setup in place of the carb. On other cars, various solutions are doable, fro using bike throttle bodies, using manifolds from later models, glueing injector bungs into the inlet - none of it needs to be difficult.

Ie if its a carb motor, that never had injection - ie old tech, does one need to have special inlet manifolds made for accepting injectors etc?

See last answer - and check www.msruns.com for success stories for various models of car, you'll find a large number are engines that were never injected.

Or can you only megajolt it? Thats the ignition side...... correct?

MegaJolt is an ignition only cut-down MegaSquirt. If you want fuel & ignition the MegaSquirt does both in one, or can do just one or the other.

Besides make V8's run in water, what other benefits do you get? Performance enhancement?

Driveability, economy, reliability, tuneability, diagnostics, switchable fuel & spark maps (very handy for LPG), extras like rev limit, traction control, launch control, NOS control, electric fan control, shift lights, closed-loop idle/anti-stall, you can have a bling digital dashboard. Oh and going dizzyless does help waterproofing rather

Also, can any modern distributorless car be used as a donor for the spark sides of things?

For most parts, yes you can butcher anything for coil packs, crank sensors, leads. My ignition setup is all from Mondeos/Fiestas etc. For a V8 you'll need an EDIS-8 unit but I have a box of those and buying a laser-cut trigger wheel is far less ar$e-ache than making one.

Does it work on diesel?

Depends what you're doing with it - it can't (yet) run an electronic diesel engine (EG TD5) but people are working on it. It can be used to add water/LPG injection to a TDi and IIRC someone was looking at using it to talk to a Bosch electronically controlled injection pump.

Hopefully someone can explain this in simple pop up book levels of tech.... please?

Post a question and you'll get an answer

Top Answer

[Corrode Finger]

Excellent fridge, thats helped the luddite in me grasp this electrickery stuff!!

How do you go about building a suitable throttle body injection system?

Also what exact bits do you need to steal from the modern 'blando box'?

Is the ford 4cyl(poss 6 cyl) the best stuff to steal or just most available?

And, how do you talk to it? I assume its not by letter?

More to the point, what level of clever laptop is required for the software?

PS - I am not yet ready to do it to my 3.9,

but it is also a possible for my pinto'd Lotus7 replica(when i bang the 2litre in)?

If it does not work on modern td5 esque dervs(yet), does it work better on older less efficient dervs?

Might aswell educate myself................ Thanks again.

[FridgeFreezer]

How do you go about building a suitable throttle body injection system?

Usually by rummaging round the scrappy/eBay for something that looks like it might fit some cars that started on carbs and ended up with EFi you can just swap the later bits on. Sometimes there are TBI units that bolt on in place of a carb. Bike throttle bodies are a fave as they often have an injector mounted in them too. My cousin has mounted a set of TB's on a machined adapter to his Bimma, but also hung a set of injectors in the plenum firing straight down the inlet tract for each cylinder. Some people gut an old carb and mount an injector into it, just keeping the throttle butterfly.

Also what exact bits do you need to steal from the modern 'blando box'?

Depends what you're doing - for fuel injection you need some way of getting an injector (or four) into the inlet tract, so however you can do it really. Obviously neat / well-designed etc. is preferable but you can make almost anything run.

You need a high-pressure fuel pump and regulator (again, whatever will fit) and preferably a lambda sensor in the zorst. Lambda sensors are pretty universal, a 3 or 4-wire type is preferred as it's got a heater built in. MS can use any temperature sensors for coolant & air and can take trigger signals from a coil, a crank or cam trigger wheel, an ignition module, etc.

Is the ford 4cyl(poss 6 cyl) the best stuff to steal or just most available?

It's cheap and available, and given how many cars they churn out one would hope it's relatively reliable.

And, how do you talk to it? I assume its not by letter?

More to the point, what level of clever laptop is required for the software?

For tuning, you need a laptop that can run Windows 95 or better, preferably with a Serial (RS232) port but you can get USB-to-serial adapters.

but it is also a possible for my pinto'd Lotus7 replica(when i bang the 2litre in)?

I'd follow the advice of PPC, get with the times and bang a Zetec lump in - all the efi & edis hardware's on it. As I said, have a look in the success stories on MSRUNS.com someone's bound to have done a pinto.

If it does not work on modern td5 esque dervs(yet), does it work better on older less efficient dervs?

Old DERVs have mechanical injection pumps so there's nothing to control.

[sheeppimp]

So has anyone megasquirrted a 2.25? or would this be new territory

[pugwash]

i'm sure it would be new territory- it may allow you to unleash all 32 horses from the engine and double the fuel efficiency from 3mpg to 6

i hate the 2.25

[V8 Freak]

Fridge....

Is anyone commercially making looms for MS in 110/90's? (or is Nige going into production?)

Neil

[sheeppimp]

i'm sure it would be new territory- it may allow you to unleash all 32 horses from the engine and double the fuel efficiency from 3mpg to 6

i hate the 2.25

I would never have guessed.

In the 80in it works well - the truck's light and although I do fancy a more modern powerplant (the audi 3 cylinder diesel is tempting) this could be a short term improvement while i get some proper brakes sorted

[FridgeFreezer]

No-one's done a 2.25 yet which is a shame as bringing the spark & fuelling into the 20th century could unleash a few ponies and make other mods much easier / more effective. Bolting an EDIS-4 to it would be child's play and I'm sure it can't be hard to find some way of getting injectors into the inlet manifold.

V8 freak - I can and have made entire looms, I do make MS "tails" that plug into a chopped RR EFi engine loom for about £40 which works well. A loom from scratch is a lot of work (just ask Nige ) and a surprising amount of raw materials too, so not cheap.

[V8 Freak]

Mmmm... All of a sudden MS becomes a little more appealing....

I would never have the patience to go through what Nige did, but for £40 and payment for some assistance, I could be tempted to consider pulling things together ready for an attempt.....

(Is this the 2008 plan me wonders.... Or do I slip a 4.6 in first ! )

[oddballrovers]

So has anyone megasquirrted a 2.25? or would this be new territory

Hi Sheep..

Come spring I will have more to tell as I am taking a 2,5l petrol out to 2,95 l and either megasquirt it or if i can have a high rpm idle ie 1500-2000 rpm control option then I am going to use a DTA system.

I am looking for aprox 125hk at 4500-5000rpm and 17-20kgm at 1500-2500rpm I have done a 2,5 based on 2.25 3main taken out to 2,5l and got 17,5kgm at 1400 and 18,7kgm at 2300 and 80hk.at 4500rpm.

So with 2,95l I hope to get atleast over 100hk and close to 20kgm.

Perhaps Fridge knows if i is possible to have a facility so that one can have a governed engine speed off ie 1500-2000rpm?

Regards

Ole.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

or is Nige going into production

Make a sentence out of the following well chosen words

Me

F**k

Way

No

F*****g

Once properly arranged you'll have your answer

Nige

[FridgeFreezer]

V8 Freak - the beauty is you can slip in the 4.6 later (or sooner) and just download someone else's fuel map

Oddball - do you mean "will MS mind if the idle is at 2000rpm" or do you mean the MS would need to control the idle speed to keep it at 2000? Both are OK, the MS doesn't care where the idle is, and you can use a stepper motor or PWM idle valve to run closed-loop idle control. Why do you need to set the idle that high anyway?

[Guy H]

Does it work on diesel?

Depends what you're doing with it - it can't (yet) run an electronic diesel engine (EG TD5) but people are working on it. It can be used to add water/LPG injection to a TDi and IIRC someone was looking at using it to talk to a Bosch electronically controlled injection pump.

Do you have any details of who might be trying this - I've been thinking of the idea for a while now myself, but trying to track down details of the inner workings of the pump is proving a little frustrating.

Cheers

Guy

[FridgeFreezer]

Do you have any details of who might be trying this - I've been thinking of the idea for a while now myself, but trying to track down details of the inner workings of the pump is proving a little frustrating.

A search of the MSEFI.com forums should bring stuff up, your starters for 10:

V-EDC Injection pump

A bit on CRD's and the problems with them

Who's going to be first? Some good tech

With the MS-Extra ignition control the ECU is doing most of the tricks (timing, duration, sequence) needed to drive a CRD, there are hardware changes required to run Piezo injectors and you would need to modify the code or collaborate with someone - but it's close and definitely doable, and a lot of people want to see it done.

[GBMUD]

A search of the MSEFI.com forums should bring stuff up, your starters for 10:

V-EDC Injection pump

A bit on CRD's and the problems with them

Who's going to be first? Some good tech

With the MS-Extra ignition control the ECU is doing most of the tricks (timing, duration, sequence) needed to drive a CRD, there are hardware changes required to run Piezo injectors and you would need to modify the code or collaborate with someone - but it's close and definitely doable, and a lot of people want to see it done.

It seems you have to be a member to view.

Chris

[Corrode Finger]

Fridge, i appreciate your knowledge.......... but could you explain some of your abbreviations as us thickies cant keep up!!

[sheeppimp]

Or do you need the vehicle to be injected?

You need injector(s) to inject the fuel, yes, but how you do it is very open to interpretation - on a Rover V8 you bolt on an EFi inlet manifold. On some cars you use a Weber/Holley 4-barrel carb manifold and bolt on a Throttle Body Injection (TBI) setup in place of the carb. On other cars, various solutions are doable, fro using bike throttle bodies, using manifolds from later models, glueing injector bungs into the inlet - none of it needs to be difficult.

I currently have a weber fitted so presumably i could go the throttle body injection route - next question any suggestions where to go.

sorry but am a complete luddite and know nowt

[red90 driver]

Hmmm - after reading this I am having thoughs about monopoint injection on my Edelbrocked 3.5

Is there a throttle body and single injector setup that would fit onto the inlet manifold that cam with the carb?

Or, seeing as I have the EDIS-8 bits waiting in the garage, should I just flog the carb and manifold, and put on the injection manifold, plenum and injectors that I also have sat in the garage, and then MS the lot?

Monopoint would be really simple, or maybe twin monopoint setup, just to get sufficient fuel in...

Just a thought.

(Now waiting to be shot down in flames)

[Guy H]

A search of the MSEFI.com forums should bring stuff up, your starters for 10:

V-EDC Injection pump

A bit on CRD's and the problems with them

Who's going to be first? Some good tech

With the MS-Extra ignition control the ECU is doing most of the tricks (timing, duration, sequence) needed to drive a CRD, there are hardware changes required to run Piezo injectors and you would need to modify the code or collaborate with someone - but it's close and definitely doable, and a lot of people want to see it done.

That first link is the one :-) I did search there, but before that topic appeared.

Now I just need to find more info on the signals, timings etc. I think the EDC one is by far the easiest with only 2 PWM outputs required - just need to get hold of lots of datalogs now

Modifying the firmware's not a problem - but then the MS has moved on leaps 'n' bounds since I was last heavily involved!!

Cheers

Guy

[FridgeFreezer]

Hmmm - after reading this I am having thoughs about monopoint injection on my Edelbrocked 3.5

Is there a throttle body and single injector setup that would fit onto the inlet manifold that cam with the carb?

red90 - Bill Shurvinton had some rather sexy (and cheap) TBI setups that bolt in place of a 4-barrel carb, here's one:

They're about 700cfm if memory serves

Although I would just bung the EFi setup on and flog the carb & manifold while people are still paying money for them.

Sheeppimp - as I said, find a throttle body setup that looks like it could be made to fit and go for it. At the end of the day a carb flange adapter is easy enough, two bits of nylon chopping board machined out with the top half having the throttle body bolt pattern in it and the bottom half having the carb flange pattern - bolt one half to each bit and then bolt the two halves together. If you can't find a chopping board, billet aluminium would do

When selecting a setup, remember horsepower not engine CC is the thing, so something off a new mini or pretty much any small hatchback would do.

Paul,

MS = MegaSquirt

EDIS = Ford Electronic Distributorless Ignition System, specifically the control unit that fires the coils.

EDIS-8 being the V8 version, EDIS-4 being the 4-pot as fitted to about a billion Ford motors.

TBI = Throttle Body Injection

CRD = Common Rail Diesel

PPC = Practical Performance Car magazine

RR = Range Rover

EFI = Electronic Fuel Injection

ECU = Electronic Control Unit, specifically the engine one, either stock or MS.

Also you may want to have a read of a previous topic explaining the various versions of MS and the options available to save me typing.

[istruggle2gate11]

Addition:

MSnS = MegaSquirt n Spark (only a couple of us on here), eliminates the need for the edis module, but is a lot more sensitive to initial (i.e. first build) reset start up issues.

[Corrode Finger]

Thanks for the link back to the old thread, its got lots in it but, for me its a little over my head, basically i am not familiar with it.

I was hoping that this thread could be a kinda begginners guide to megasquirt, if you get my drift.

[Corrode Finger]

Soo, thinking about this some more.........

If a stock carb 3.5 RRC is 135bhp( for argument sake)

A stock efi 3.5 RRC is 165bhp

Does that mean, that like for like( as much as is practicable) the MS can improve on stock efi purely by being vehicle specific, with no compromises?

Might be barking up the wrong tree, but thought i'd ask?

Has there been any comparisons carried out on the bhp/ torque benefits on stock motors?