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Need to be sure - then smack a mate


Hybrid_From_Hell
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On sunday I had a 'visitor', could have done without it as I was up to my neck in it. I won't say "Mate or Friend" becuase he irritates the bejeezus out of me when he turns up normally wnating something done immeaditely but he pays well :lol:

Anyway, I was fitting the Jate Rings so kindly given to me by Mr Orange off the forum.

I have fitted these on the rear of chassis, I know that these just normally go through the holes on each side of the chassis, but I had to redrill them due to the new crossmember and all that, so whilst I was at it I turned up 2x tubes with a 3mm wall, and welded them in.

Then I was just fitting the Jate rings when matey turned up.

he argued and argued his point, I was sure it was nonsense, I even rang him in the evening to check it wasn't a wind up - it wasn't he was adamant he is right.

so here goes :

The jate rings come with a 8,8T Bolt,

I didn't like these as the bolt shank is a tad too short, and in effect one side of the bolt was going to be less than 10mm shank as it had thread on it,

so I went to my tame nut and bolt shop and amongst other things bought 2x 12.9T allen bolts full shank through both sides of the Jate and a Nyloc to suit.

matey has said that I am wrong fitting 12.9s and should stick with 8.8T as the 12.9T are more 'brittle' and shear 'easier' than the 8.8s.

I have assured him he is taking B******s .....but he keeps on about it to a point I am now for some werid reason wondering if he is (for once - and that will be a F Miracle) right ?

I have shoved a pair of 12.9s cos the shear force will take more abuse than a 8.8T bolt - won't it :huh:

I have tubed the chassis so they are a better fit and pull on the tube and not just 2x chassis holes....

Put me out of my misery please - confirm he is wrong - then I can thump him :)

Nige

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12.9 has a higher tensile strenth, but is harder, so will tend to break rather than just bend.

Personally I'd prefer to bend one rather than it break.

Especially if you're planning to use them for snatched recoveries (don't bother I don't want to get into the fors and againsts of snatched recoveries arguements. lets just agree that they happen).

Jon

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In a nutshell, Jon is correct.

However, you should remember that the yield stress of a 12.9 is nearly 70% higher than that of an 8.8 so you have far more strength to work with. (there you go Nick ;) )

Anyhow, with the M36's that Nige is undoubtably using I can't see there being much of a problem in a Land Rover application. :P:P

Bottom line, IMHO is don't worry about it.

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Smack him.

your not bending it, your shearing it. Even if you were bending it, it takes around 70 % more force to actually bend it, let alone break it.

Tell your friend this information come from a reliable source...

Daan

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Guest diesel_jim

Factory fitment is an 8.8..... and as these rings were alegidly designed by the JATE wing of the MoD, i'd have though that being slung under a helicopter the 8.8 is enough*

* "enough" meaning literally that... probably the cheapest bolt they could safely (cheaply) buy...

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Are you sure JATE designed them. I was under the impression that they were an organisation which tested and rated lifting equipment for use in air movement. Either underslung or in the back of a C130 etc. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. :)

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In a nutshell, Jon is correct.

However, you should remember that the yield stress of a 12.9 is nearly 70% higher than that of an 8.8 so you have far more strength to work with. (there you go Nick ;) )

Anyhow, with the M36's that Nige is undoubtably using I can't see there being much of a problem in a Land Rover application. :P:P

Bottom line, IMHO is don't worry about it.

But I bet the DBTT is a lot higher with a 12.9 rather than a 8.8, so Nige had better not do an Artic expedition :D

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Smack him.

your not bending it, your shearing it. Even if you were bending it, it takes around 70 % more force to actually bend it, let alone break it.

Tell your friend this information come from a reliable source...

Daan

ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON !!!!!!!!!!!

Before answering you need to think of the whole engineering problem and not just a little part of it,

12.9 will snap rather than bend yes, but by the time it snapps the load would be so high that an 8.8 of 1.5 times the diameter would have already gone to heaven.

a little bit of info is dangerous,

Matey should be beaten thoroughly :lol::lol::lol:

Lara.

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