Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 On sunday I had a 'visitor', could have done without it as I was up to my neck in it. I won't say "Mate or Friend" becuase he irritates the bejeezus out of me when he turns up normally wnating something done immeaditely but he pays well Anyway, I was fitting the Jate Rings so kindly given to me by Mr Orange off the forum. I have fitted these on the rear of chassis, I know that these just normally go through the holes on each side of the chassis, but I had to redrill them due to the new crossmember and all that, so whilst I was at it I turned up 2x tubes with a 3mm wall, and welded them in. Then I was just fitting the Jate rings when matey turned up. he argued and argued his point, I was sure it was nonsense, I even rang him in the evening to check it wasn't a wind up - it wasn't he was adamant he is right. so here goes : The jate rings come with a 8,8T Bolt, I didn't like these as the bolt shank is a tad too short, and in effect one side of the bolt was going to be less than 10mm shank as it had thread on it, so I went to my tame nut and bolt shop and amongst other things bought 2x 12.9T allen bolts full shank through both sides of the Jate and a Nyloc to suit. matey has said that I am wrong fitting 12.9s and should stick with 8.8T as the 12.9T are more 'brittle' and shear 'easier' than the 8.8s. I have assured him he is taking B******s .....but he keeps on about it to a point I am now for some werid reason wondering if he is (for once - and that will be a F Miracle) right ? I have shoved a pair of 12.9s cos the shear force will take more abuse than a 8.8T bolt - won't it I have tubed the chassis so they are a better fit and pull on the tube and not just 2x chassis holes.... Put me out of my misery please - confirm he is wrong - then I can thump him Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I think he's actually right, so kick yourself in the nads. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguevogue Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I'm sure Bishbosh will be along in a mo to do some calculations for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pux Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 just thump him anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 1, 2007 Author Share Posted October 1, 2007 just thump him anyway Yep Ok - Good Idea Now back to the bolt Q Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 12.9 has a higher tensile strenth, but is harder, so will tend to break rather than just bend. Personally I'd prefer to bend one rather than it break. Especially if you're planning to use them for snatched recoveries (don't bother I don't want to get into the fors and againsts of snatched recoveries arguements. lets just agree that they happen). Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Just stick a cable tie through the hole, they're structural ain't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 In a nutshell, Jon is correct. However, you should remember that the yield stress of a 12.9 is nearly 70% higher than that of an 8.8 so you have far more strength to work with. (there you go Nick ) Anyhow, with the M36's that Nige is undoubtably using I can't see there being much of a problem in a Land Rover application. Bottom line, IMHO is don't worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Smack him. your not bending it, your shearing it. Even if you were bending it, it takes around 70 % more force to actually bend it, let alone break it. Tell your friend this information come from a reliable source... Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Factory fitment is an 8.8..... and as these rings were alegidly designed by the JATE wing of the MoD, i'd have though that being slung under a helicopter the 8.8 is enough* * "enough" meaning literally that... probably the cheapest bolt they could safely (cheaply) buy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warthog Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 If you really want to Pi$$ ya mate off? I could lend ya a couple of these allen bolts to ~ A: Weld under ya truck? B: Lump him with? 56mm Allen against a 24mm Hex Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I always use 8.8 as "shear" bolts in my agricultural machines. They will shear as quick as wink given enough of a jolt. Better than blowing a gearbox! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Are you sure JATE designed them. I was under the impression that they were an organisation which tested and rated lifting equipment for use in air movement. Either underslung or in the back of a C130 etc. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 JATE IIRC came up with the requirement & LR either had the rings made by a outside supplier or made them in house, I'd be inclined to go for the latter as IIRC have the part number cast into the material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pux Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Jate are just the testers and breakers i dont think they design owt might be wrong lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas90 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 In a nutshell, Jon is correct.However, you should remember that the yield stress of a 12.9 is nearly 70% higher than that of an 8.8 so you have far more strength to work with. (there you go Nick ) Anyhow, with the M36's that Nige is undoubtably using I can't see there being much of a problem in a Land Rover application. Bottom line, IMHO is don't worry about it. But I bet the DBTT is a lot higher with a 12.9 rather than a 8.8, so Nige had better not do an Artic expedition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pux Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 i still would have gone with.........smack him then seek the answer later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 A bit of bedtime reading http://www.jateu.mod.uk/pages/history.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lara Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Smack him.your not bending it, your shearing it. Even if you were bending it, it takes around 70 % more force to actually bend it, let alone break it. Tell your friend this information come from a reliable source... Daan ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON !!!!!!!!!!! Before answering you need to think of the whole engineering problem and not just a little part of it, 12.9 will snap rather than bend yes, but by the time it snapps the load would be so high that an 8.8 of 1.5 times the diameter would have already gone to heaven. a little bit of info is dangerous, Matey should be beaten thoroughly Lara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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