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Broken detroit?


Troddenmasses
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My wife has been using the 90 as a daily driver since her car died. She came home yesterday saying that it was making a horrific banging noise from 'somewhere underneath'. I went for a drive, and after about a mile, sure enough - there is a banging noise at about the same frequency as the wheels going around.

After a trying a few different things, I lifted one of the back wheels up and gave it a spin. It worked exactly as I would have expected - it turned the prop. I then moved the wheel in reverse for a bit, and then back forwards again - this time it didn't turn the prop. I thought that it was probably a half shaft or the flanges at the wheel.

After stripping those out, I couldn't find a problem, so removed the rear diff, which is a detroit - I haven't had any kind of problems with it over the last year and have been very happy with it. I couldn't see any problems, but then it is all inside a casting, so popped in another diff that I had lying around.

It seems to have fixed the problem of the banging noise, so I guess that the detroit is buggered. Does anybody know whether there are any user serviceable parts inside there, and whether they regularly go bang? I had always thought that they were pretty much indistructable, and haven't done anything over the last few months that could really damage it. Should I just strip it down and have a look, or will I just end up in a shower of cogs and springs?

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dont know about servicable parts - but they are not bullet proof. Mr Turner has smashed two detroit lockers to smitherines with in 6 months of each other - but it being powered by an SD1 v8 at the time with simexs on.

Detroits do go bang, when they lock up whilst driving normally - -when going round corners etc, but that should just be a one off each time, not an on going bang all the time.

My wife has been using the 90 as a daily driver since her car died. She came home yesterday saying that it was making a horrific banging noise from 'somewhere underneath'. I went for a drive, and after about a mile, sure enough - there is a banging noise at about the same frequency as the wheels going around.

After a trying a few different things, I lifted one of the back wheels up and gave it a spin. It worked exactly as I would have expected - it turned the prop. I then moved the wheel in reverse for a bit, and then back forwards again - this time it didn't turn the prop. I thought that it was probably a half shaft or the flanges at the wheel.

After stripping those out, I couldn't find a problem, so removed the rear diff, which is a detroit - I haven't had any kind of problems with it over the last year and have been very happy with it. I couldn't see any problems, but then it is all inside a casting, so popped in another diff that I had lying around.

It seems to have fixed the problem of the banging noise, so I guess that the detroit is buggered. Does anybody know whether there are any user serviceable parts inside there, and whether they regularly go bang? I had always thought that they were pretty much indistructable, and haven't done anything over the last few months that could really damage it. Should I just strip it down and have a look, or will I just end up in a shower of cogs and springs?

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Warning: these diffs contain only witchcraft and hallucinogens. There are no user-serviceable parts inside, if you open it up you will end up with fairy dust all over your workshop.

I told you when you bought it that it was like a diff but not better... should have bought a TruTrac :P Pull it apart and see what's inside, it's not like you can flog it to an unsuspecting forumeer now...

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Detroit No Spin lockers are anything but bullet proof.In fact for the past 20 years or so since the introduction of the S series they have been absolute carp.A mate of mine has an early pre S series in a 9'' Ford adapted to a LandRover which is still like new having survived countless broken 31 spline halfshafts and a couple of crown wheel and pinions, and I have two 225S that I bought new when I used to run Salisburies front and rear.mine have never seen a broken halfshaft and have done only a quarter of the mileage yet they are buggered . The difference is that all the toothy bits in the early models were cut and milled from forged steel blanks with full length dog teeth on the side gears and drivers and did not feature the stupid holdout rings which effectively halve the tooth length. If one looks closely at the S series it will be revealed that they are also investment cast from carp materials, despite having the appearance of being cut and milled. In my previous job rebuilding diffs on medium/heavy commercial vehicles I was replacing buggered low mileage Detroits at an average of 3 per week. Pure junk!.

Bill.

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All sounds a bit harsh to me; Mine has been used since 2003 and works mint. In fact , most american rock crawlers are using these in both front and rear applications. And every Nascar has a detroit diff (around 700 horses). Lets see some evidence here shall we?

Daan

Detroit No Spin lockers are anything but bullet proof.In fact for the past 20 years or so since the introduction of the S series they have been absolute carp.A mate of mine has an early pre S series in a 9'' Ford adapted to a LandRover which is still like new having survived countless broken 31 spline halfshafts and a couple of crown wheel and pinions, and I have two 225S that I bought new when I used to run Salisburies front and rear.mine have never seen a broken halfshaft and have done only a quarter of the mileage yet they are buggered . The difference is that all the toothy bits in the early models were cut and milled from forged steel blanks with full length dog teeth on the side gears and drivers and did not feature the stupid holdout rings which effectively halve the tooth length. If one looks closely at the S series it will be revealed that they are also investment cast from carp materials, despite having the appearance of being cut and milled. In my previous job rebuilding diffs on medium/heavy commercial vehicles I was replacing buggered low mileage Detroits at an average of 3 per week. Pure junk!.

Bill.

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Well, it's out of the diff, and in pieces (pictures to follow). No big deals, apart from finding out the difficult way that the springs in there are a lot longer and more powerful than I had thought. Everything seems perfect, except maybe the very end washers - the ones with the tabs on the side. On one side there seems to be a groove off centre - I don't know whether this has worn that way, or whether it was machined like that in the first place. Time to call Mr. Ashcroft to see if he has any parts for sale (and perhaps a diagram or two), I think.

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Detroit locker???? i won't be ever using one of these again! they only lasted in mine for about 1 hour each time, shaft snap's and locker went into self destruct mode, lost all the teeth on both side's of the locker, this happened at the same time as/when the std shaft snapped. Both were brand new and Dave Ashcroft changed them both, (top bloke) but after the second time i fitted a 24spl ARB and Ashcroft shaft's ( by then i'd moved onto Dave's black list ;) )........ and i've never had a problem.

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Bill the detriot that is being discussed is a "locker" not a "no-spin" :(

Different kettle of fish.

It is the same thing. No spin is the correct term according to my owners manual that's all. Anyone who frequents Pirate forums would be aware that a lot of the so called rock crawlers also have a lot of Detroit failures, usually when a halfshaft lets go, the inner circle of dog teeth on the side gears usually break off. Due to poor reliability and quirky handling, particularly on tandem drive rear bogies many of the outback truck operators over here have given up on Detroits and gone over to manual crosslocks now that the US differential manufacturers such as Eaton, Rockwell, Spicer etc are making them available

Troddenmasses, if the centre of the end washer that the coil spring seats against has worn away or punched out, then that is likely your problem as the spring then seats against the carrier with less compression force aswell as twisting when the side gear revolves at a different speed to the carrier when making a turn.

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I've a feeling the conversation with Mr Ashcroft will also involve the three magic initials "ARB"...

Not at all. What a helpful man Mr. Ashcroft is (I think that it was Ian). I'll definately by buying a new gearbox from them when mine finally gives up the ghost. Anyway - he described to me what should be there - i'm not too sure whether mine is definately buggered - i'll have to give it a good clean up and look closely at it. If I can replace parts, i'll be putting it back in - I really like the idea of the Detroit.

Mr. Ashcroft even told me that I should be really careful when taking it apart, as the springs would ping the thing apart - showering me with springs and cogs. Unfortunately, that information would have been really useful at about 8pm last night :rolleyes: Oh well. All of the parts are accounted for, and back together now.

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Ok then. I've had it apart, and can't really find anything wrong with it. The following parts were inside the casing:

parts1.jpg

The only thing that I can think might be wrong were the bits in the very centre

parts2.jpg

The top two are discs with a cross machined across the centre. When I took mine apart, the two discs (which fit against each other) didn't have the two crosses touching - they were one above the other - both pointing the same way.

Is this correct? As soon as I know which way to put them, i'm going to clean everything in the parts washer then put it all back together and fit it back into the 90. If it makes more banging noises, we will know that i've done something wrong.....

Any ideas?

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Hi get borroe steal two length of 5/16 unc stud by 6ins long and two nuts.

the two tab thrust washers go into each diff side, hold in place with grease.

the 'dish' washers go into the drive members (24/10 spline) concave face down, the inner preload thrust washers sit on the 'dish' washers with the thrust face up. i.e. the two thrust faces face each other when assembled. These provide the soft lock effect. these parts must be assembled with grease to hold them in place during assembly.

The side clutches have a long drive tooth and this locates in the hold out ring.

When re assembling use the studding to guide the two halfs together and use a half shaft to rotate/locate inner splines. This gets fraught sometimes as the inner thrust parts fall out.

I will be here until thurs so call or bring it up if you need help.

Ian Ashcroft

quote name='Troddenmasses' date='Oct 8 2007, 11:33 PM' post='187781']

Ok then. I've had it apart, and can't really find anything wrong with it. The following parts were inside the casing:

parts1.jpg

The only thing that I can think might be wrong were the bits in the very centre

parts2.jpg

The top two are discs with a cross machined across the centre. When I took mine apart, the two discs (which fit against each other) didn't have the two crosses touching - they were one above the other - both pointing the same way.

Is this correct? As soon as I know which way to put them, i'm going to clean everything in the parts washer then put it all back together and fit it back into the 90. If it makes more banging noises, we will know that i've done something wrong.....

Any ideas?

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