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Having had the Td5 for a few months I am thinking of getting it chipped. The reason being that I want extra power - mainly to compensate for the bigger tyres I have fitted. I know that there are a number of companies offering this service but which one and why? If there is any option I want low down and mid-range torque as I find it is still OK at motorway speeds.

Mine is a 2004 model so it apparently has the later ECU which is easily re-programmed and does not need any actual replacement of hardware - is that correct? Are the little boxes one clips on/plugs in to the existing ECU any good - at least one could buy one of those second hand! I know that one can fit bigger inter-coolers too, how much difference does this make and is it worth the money? Might an inter-cooler give any increase in MPG - I understand that, subject to sensible driving, one can get improved economy with a chip. Are there different programs for the Defender and Discovery or are they the same?

Which one did you go for and why?

So many questions. :) I would welcome opinion; informed opinion even more!

Thanks

Chris

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Having had the Td5 for a few months I am thinking of getting it chipped. The reason being that I want extra power - mainly to compensate for the bigger tyres I have fitted. I know that there are a number of companies offering this service but which one and why? If there is any option I want low down and mid-range torque as I find it is still OK at motorway speeds.

Mine is a 2004 model so it apparently has the later ECU which is easily re-programmed and does not need any actual replacement of hardware - is that correct? Are the little boxes one clips on/plugs in to the existing ECU any good - at least one could buy one of those second hand! I know that one can fit bigger inter-coolers too, how much difference does this make and is it worth the money? Might an inter-cooler give any increase in MPG - I understand that, subject to sensible driving, one can get improved economy with a chip. Are there different programs for the Defender and Discovery or are they the same?

Which one did you go for and why?

So many questions. :) I would welcome opinion; informed opinion even more!

Thanks

Chris

Chris,

My understanding of the plug-in boxes is that they are simply resistors which effectively fool the injectors into overfuelling across the rev range - although I may be wrong.

You're right about your truck too - the ECU can be flash programmed.

A decent garage with access to Autologic will be able to reprogramme the ECU for you properly - there's a place local to me that have a 110 kicking out about 180bhp with no problems. The owner is a friend but not a forum member - www.allterrainautos.co.uk

No point in fitting a bigger intercooler without upping the boost/fuelling to match.

Matt

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Personally I would only ever chip/ tune a car when combining all three engine

processes.

Air in- Intercooler

Fuelling- chip

Exhuast gasses- exhaust

If you just opt for one of them you may see gains in performance

but not reach the full potential. Also if you just adjust the fuelling

what is happening to that extra heat, are you starting to sovertress

some other part of the engine?

Try the following companies-

Allisport

Jeremy J. Fearn

JE Engineering

Twisteed Performance

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I have no experience of the clip on/plug in boxes but I wouldn't use one on the basis they appear to use the school of thought of "throw a bit more sh&& against the wall" if they just interfere with the signal to the injectors they are clearly not taking into account any of the inputs from the engine sensors e.g. airflow/temperature etc. I daresay they work 99% of the time but I would prefer it to be done properly i.e. new fuelling map in the ECU by somebody who knows what they are doing.

Bear in mind if you are still under warranty that you can immediately kiss bye bye to any warranty on the engine and probably the transmission if it goes bang. Land Rover issue a specific technical bulletin on this point. One reason I am not touching my 300Tdi for the time being, but a bigger Brunel intercooler is on the menu later on.

If I had a Td5 I'd go for an ECU tweak and an intercooler. Well not quite, if I had a Td5 I'd sell it and buy one of the new ones, but you get what I mean :)

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I don't think you can add all this extra power and still maintain the same long term reliability (what reliability I hear you say :lol: )

I have a friend who had chipped and intercooled TD5 110 (think it was a Jeremey Fearn job), which was putting out around 200bhp and went like stink. However he recently sold it as he could see big bills on the horizon, turbo etc. Throughout his time with the vehicle it had been a constant battle to keep the exhaust manifold on, grinding the webs out from between the pipes helped but it wasn't a 100% cure.

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I have been using a PSI Tune box

Mainly as i do not keep my vehicles long :o easy to fit & remove,

Have been using them for the last 4/5 years, ( not only on LR vehicles, but other as well :) ) no problems whatsoever, and as i always seam to get poor (read carp) consumption, with or without one fitted, now waiting for a 07 version :unsure:

Chris, the offer is still open , if you want to "borrow" one for a while :rolleyes:

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JE Eng did mine £ for bhp/Nm theirs was the best offer for a chip upgrade/exchange - i had stage 1 Intercooler left std.

For the money now Autologic i would suggest is the way fwd £ per bhp/Nm if you have flashable ECU.

Mike D has had problems with his td5 since tunning it (manifolds etc) i think hes had it detuned a bit now! but it does have a hard life towing (alot) all the time.

I would also agree it worth getting a better flwoing exhaust system fitted.

Personally i don't like th eplug in boxes, esp as they are similar price to some ECu upgrades.

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Plug in boxes... some are better than others in the way they work, but all are simply a method of getting more fuel into the engine.... not always at the correct time.

They (usually) either modify the signal to the injectors, so that they stay open for longer, or fool the fuel pressure sensor into thinking that it is at a lower pressure than it actually is.... so it ramps the pressure up, supplying more fuel.

One of the failings with plug boxes is that they don't know what the engine is actually doing, or whether for example, it has any faults. Even if the engine is in limp home mode, the little box will still try shoving in more fuel. Also, you often find that they cause a lot of fault codes to be logged.... not detrimental, but annoying.

Personally I'd stay away.... but each to their own.

People used to use the excuse that you could run a plug in box and avoid any warranty issues... which is sort of true, but on a Td5 it is very easy to have two ECU's - so you keep your original one original, and modify the spare. When both coded to you injectors and 10AS it is simply a 5 minute job to swap between the two.

On a performance and driveability level - I have always found a proper remap to be far superior.

As for files...

Disco and Defender are different - if you tried to run a Disco fuel map on a Defender you will find (among other things) that your temperature gauge would work the wrong way round.

Also there are various different types of Td5 files - due to upgrades etc etc - so a Td5 is not just a Td5.

Exhaust wise (on a budget) the best set-up in my opinion is a early non CAT Td5 down pipe, and a centre silencer replacement pipe and a standard rear silencer - not overly loud, cheapish, and helps mid-range/reduces turbo lag.

Without being a plug, I offer Td5 remaps and can also supply full size intercoolers (to my own design) if wanted more than just a normal remap. I could also (if you let me know your injector codes) send you an ECU to try - would be without any security so would be plug in and play - no need to re-code to your alarm unit. Or I could come to you - I was in Greece this weekend remapping two Td5's - so Wiltshire isn't far lol ;)

However (apart from a short trial) I would not recommend having a remap done via the post....

If your going to tune your engine, you want to make sure that everything is working correctly first - there are quite a few faults that Td5's are prone to (even on newer cars) that remapping might mask, but not resolve - and as such you still will not be making the full potential of the engine. (Hence I always carry out a full diagnostic check before remapping)

From reading your description, a normal stage 1 remap would probably suffice, even though lots of people will try and sell you a stage 2 map, big intercooler, a boost box, a new exhaust etc etc.....

Ian

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Also....

With regards to MPG - it simply comes down to your right foot.

If driven in the same way, at the same speeds etc etc your MPG will not change after the remap - some people claim massive improvemets - but personnally I usually just find it stays the same.

However, if you make use of the new found performance then MPG will suffer... to get more power out a diesel you put more fuel in. So, if you use the power, then you use more diesel... simple as ;)

Ian

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Personally i don't like th eplug in boxes, esp as they are similar price to some ECu upgrades.

But, the box can always be sold on rather than left in the vehicle !! thereby retaining some of the original outlay

Would agreed with Ian, a ECU remap is the better way to go terms of driveability etc, if intending to keep the vehicle for a while,

Limited experience with remapped LR products, but do about 3 remapped software download a week into Volvo's and certainly show a improved drive over the tune box's

Ian,, any developments on upgrading the Puma engine yet ???

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I don't think you can add all this extra power and still maintain the same long term reliability (what reliability I hear you say :lol: )

I have a friend who had chipped and intercooled TD5 110 (think it was a Jeremey Fearn job), which was putting out around 200bhp and went like stink. However he recently sold it as he could see big bills on the horizon, turbo etc. Throughout his time with the vehicle it had been a constant battle to keep the exhaust manifold on, grinding the webs out from between the pipes helped but it wasn't a 100% cure.

Yes, it was a JJF job and as Mark says 'it went like stink'. It reportedly made 198bhp and 320lbft. Very enjoyable to drive - smooth and responsive without having to rev the engine. It needed traction control (even in the dry) as the front wheels were prone to spinning when exiting a corner in third.

However, I had to become a dab hand at replacing / fettling the exhaust manifold when it warped. It also sheared the studs that fastened it to the head on a regular basis - more fixing. The EGR was tried as per factory and also blanked - no difference. I concluded that reliably producing that level of power and torque was more than could be reasonably expected of the Td5. A trawl of the forums suggests that I may not have been alone with these types of problems.

The final straw was when the exhaust side of the turbo housing cracked. I took a long hard look at the future for the whole vehicle and decided to move on. I'm currently driving my old 300Tdi (with the fuelling turned up a bit) while I make a decision on ordering a Ford engined 110.

If I were you, consider a chipped & intercooled Td5, but at a lower level of tune. I didn't have an EGT gauge fitted, but would suggest it worthwhile.

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I don't know if it's the same with diseasals but some of the plug-in boxes just put a resistor network in the signal from the coolant and/or air temperature sensor to make the ECU think it's a bit cooler than it really is = more fuel. Could be worth a pop for the 20p it will cost in components :P

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Well.... as you've asked ;)

Hopefully going to have some new kit in the next couple of weeks :)

Ian

How about smoke?? I had my ECU chipped in Portugal, 179,5HP and 430Nm at 1750rpms. Everything else is stock, except the turbo boost, which is at 1.3. It does drive like a dream, however it smokes a lot more.

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How about smoke?? I had my ECU chipped in Portugal, 179,5HP and 430Nm at 1750rpms. Everything else is stock, except the turbo boost, which is at 1.3. It does drive like a dream, however it smokes a lot more.

Interesting....

Excess smoke is just overfuelling... so just wasted fuel... and usually (so I'm lead to believe) if you try and chuck that much fuel through a Trans'fender it just goes into limp home mode. But must be ok in your case.

I'm intrigued by the power figures - have you got rolling road print outs?? One thing that interests me is that they make max torque at 1750rpm... but max torque in a standard Defender is at 2000rpm.

And I may be mistaken, but I thought the boost pressure was already 1.3bar max??

Do I you mind if I ask who did the remap?? Just interested....

Ian

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I think the max torque figures often published are bllx TBH. The 300Tdi is supposed to make its max torque at 1800rpm but its nowhere near, if you measure it by what the engine will pull up a hill before it starts to die. it is more like 2200rpm I reckon. Once you are below 2000 on a hill you can feel it start to fade though it should be peaking lower than that.

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Interesting....

Excess smoke is just overfuelling... so just wasted fuel... and usually (so I'm lead to believe) if you try and chuck that much fuel through a Trans'fender it just goes into limp home mode. But must be ok in your case.

I'm intrigued by the power figures - have you got rolling road print outs?? One thing that interests me is that they make max torque at 1750rpm... but max torque in a standard Defender is at 2000rpm.

And I may be mistaken, but I thought the boost pressure was already 1.3bar max??

Do I you mind if I ask who did the remap?? Just interested....

Ian

I´m sorry, my mistake, I´ve checked the rolling road print and max torque is at 2580 rpm... I also may be mistaken, but I thought max boost pressure was 1.1bar... I do admit I may be wrong on this...

Will try to scan the rolling roads prints, it was made in a 4 wheel drive rolling road, so I understand it is more reliable than a 2 wheel drive!?!?

The remap was made by a portuguese tuning company which deal mainly with diesel competition engines...

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Mine Goes like the clappers had one of the first Allisport plug in boxes and a bigger cooler and a PTP filter I also removed the middle dustbin silencer for a straight through pipe. It was ok for 18 months then it blew the manifold and warped the original. A new manifold with the webs ground out seems to have sorted the problem. Problem is i drive mine hard and now it feels sluggish!!! :D

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I´m sorry, my mistake, I´ve checked the rolling road print and max torque is at 2580 rpm... I also may be mistaken, but I thought max boost pressure was 1.1bar... I do admit I may be wrong on this...

Will try to scan the rolling roads prints, it was made in a 4 wheel drive rolling road, so I understand it is more reliable than a 2 wheel drive!?!?

The remap was made by a portuguese tuning company which deal mainly with diesel competition engines...

With permanent 4 wheel drive has to be a 4 wheel drive rolling road otherwise the centre diff will pop.

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With permanent 4 wheel drive has to be a 4 wheel drive rolling road otherwise the centre diff will pop.

I understand that...but many have the front propshaft removed so they can go to a 2wheel drive rolling road. However, as I´ve been told, not so reliable as it tends to have higher torque/BHP figures on these.

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I got my 2004 Disco td5 fully tuned (remap/intercooler/EGR/...) by Allisport...

196bhp / 400Nm (on the rolling road) - I'm quite happy with it !!! B)

not much more smoke, and a bit better economy if I drive at 70mph..

Well...maybe that is why mine smokes a lot...higher torque, less BHP. However I do not have larger intercooler...the guys overhere don´t get bigger intercoolers as they say it increases the lag in accelarating at low revs (what you need in offroading). I´ve got to give them credit on one thing....I really do not have any lag whatsoever, comparing to other remaped Td5s, which are very weak in low revs, but then have "power explosions"

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