2.5 turbo diesel

[CR88]

Hi,

This pré-TDi engine is limited in power but is it reliable?

What cares we should take and what we should look with care when buying?

Regards,

[nicks90]

they're chronically bad.

not enough power, so they are thrashed constantly to get them to go at anything like normal traffic speeds.

this leads to them being world renowned for heavy breathing from worn rings and valves + turbo seals failing and running on its own oil leading to total destruction, melted pistons, overheating...... the list goes on and on.

its is basically the standard 2.5NAD with a turbo bolted on (yeah i know, bit more to it than that...) and the engine can only just handle the meagre power they produce.

[Sean]

they're chronically bad.

not enough power, so they are thrashed constantly to get them to go at anything like normal traffic speeds.

this leads to them being world renowned for heavy breathing from worn rings and valves + turbo seals failing and running on its own oil leading to total destruction, melted pistons, overheating...... the list goes on and on.

its is basically the standard 2.5NAD with a turbo bolted on (yeah i know, bit more to it than that...) and the engine can only just handle the meagre power they produce.

thats nonsense - it's not the best engine LRs ever produced and you'll not be winning any races with it but it you look after it and don't abuse it they will last well in excess of 200k without requiring big works

[Happyoldgit]

IMHO not the best engine offering.

[JimAttrill]

I work with a falcon fan, and he says that what you do is remove the welch plugs and remove some of the flashing that LR left in the block. Then it won't overheat, even here. I can get better details if you like.

Though his dad's falcon did itself a lot of harm when a pre-combustion chamber disintegrated. Now to be replaced by a 300tdi.

[nobber]

they're chronically bad.

not enough power, so they are thrashed constantly to get them to go at anything like normal traffic speeds.

this leads to them being world renowned for heavy breathing from worn rings and valves + turbo seals failing and running on its own oil leading to total destruction, melted pistons, overheating...... the list goes on and on.

its is basically the standard 2.5NAD with a turbo bolted on (yeah i know, bit more to it than that...) and the engine can only just handle the meagre power they produce.

are you serious?

19j engines , in my book are pretty good.

they are low on power and thus the top speed is reduced but if you get a latter one and can deal with a 65 top speed then why not. change the oil in them every 4000 miles , do filter changes regularly , fit an electric fan and generally keep it in good nick and it should be fine.

the reason they have a bad reputation is because of the turbo , the engine was introduced in the mid 80's when turbo's were still mostly only found on the more flashy sporty motors , so , anything with turbo written on the back was indeed in the 'high performance' group and not the 'potter along at 50' club. people expected way too much from the 19j thus when the motor exploded because people drove them like racing cars it became regarded as a carp engine.

i run a later 19j and for reliability id trust it way more than a lot of 200tdi's i know of. i drove it to Corfu and back and it never missed a beat and lets face it , most tdi's nowadays have been well abused and you would be very lucky to find one with less than 120k on the clock.

if buying one look for breathing , look for engine numbers (no number could indicate a re-con) , look for signs of abuse or lack of care , are the glow plugs looking old? old enough to suggest a neglected engine? same with the filters etc. look at and smell the oil , is it burnt? most turbo engines will have burnt smelling oil but these engines do need regular oil changes. is the engine dry? or does it look as if its leaking like a sieve?

with a 19j you can either get a good one or a bad one , just like all other engines.

[Les Henson]

They are carp.

Les.

[white90]

Les is spot on there are crud of the highest L/R specialist crud division

[Matt Neale]

Slight division of opinion here as usual... and so eloquently commented on by both Les and Tony...

I've had both engines in my 110 - the original 19J having been replaced with a 200 Tdi at about 180,000 miles about 4 years ago. That same engine with a new head gasket and serviced injectors is now in a mates 90. Personnally I don't think the engine is half bad - as said above - service it properly and use the torque rather than thrash it at the top end of the rev range and it'll go on and on.

The 200 Tdi is far better in terms of power and fuel consumption - but it's a different generation of engine and is direct injection too... the 19J was one of the first turbo diesels in a non-LGV vehicle and was quite well developed - it wasn't simply a case of bolting a turbo onto the N/A diesel and hoping for the best.

Given the choice I'd have the Tdi - but if on a budget the 19J is more than adequate.

Matt

[Happyoldgit]

I think the debate on this engine has been done to death both here and elsewhere before.

[white90]

funny to see how people with TDIs fondly remember the engine they spent a lot of ££ to replace.

the engine is under powered over stressed an a waste of ££ repairing when a 200tdi is so readily available

it is a quantum leap in every way over the 2.5n/a /2.5TD

save yourself the aggro and find/save for a TDi

[nobber]

as usual its being compared to a tdi , the original post said nothing about tdi's. to be fair if we are going to compare engines id say look for a decent transit or mazda engine.

sure the tdi's faster , more powerful and perhaps more economical (my td does 27.1 mpg at an average speed of 55 mph) but that doesent make the td a carp engine.

a decent low milage td might set you back 2 or 3 hundred quid , a decent low milage tdi (if you can find one) could set you back 4 times that amount.

if you cant use or find a decent tdi dont be afraid to use a 19j. if it worries you consider a n/a engine , slow , sluggish but fairly bullet proof.

[callum]

i think the issue is, if you're going to the bother of putting in a new engine, you might as well put in a decent one. maybe the td is not that bad, but its also not that good either. pretty lame power output and dubious longevity menas its not worth the bother these days, especially when a disco rotbox can be had for £500 for its engine.

[Mako]

Well thanks guys for making me feel like a complete plank for buying an '88 110 with a 2.5 turbo engine!!

Spent the last 5 weeks getting her road worthy (Not just Mot'able) - then the majority of you say the engine is likely to be poor.....

The only issue we have had so far (after doing 800 miles or so), is a couple of injector pipes cracking. Unbeknown to me, there were supposed to be rubber brackets in place to stop them vibrating against each other/ the engine. Hopefully, nothing too catastrophic is going to go wrong in the next year or so.

I intend to service the vehicle again (after 1000 miles) and then every 4k as mentioned above. The reason for the 1k service is the fact that it is supposedly a 'new' replacement engine that has probably been stood for a while.

To be honest, this is my first Landy - and from what I have seen/heard/experienced in the short time I have owned it, is that there doesn't seem to be anything majorly wrong with the engine. Yes, there are better ones out there (Tdi), but as long as you treat it with kid gloves and look after it as well as possible, there is far less chance of it going Bang.

It really does come down to budget/needs. If you have the money, then the 200/300 tdi is the way foward. If you are looking for a machine that is likely to do the job (albeit slower!) and haven' neccasarily got the cash for a 200, or 300 tdi, then the 2.5T is the way foward (unless of course you have the patience to save up!).

Bottom line is that my Landy will get used every other weekend at best - as long as it starts and has a good chance of getting me to where I want to go, then I am happy. After all - that is what the RAC/AA were invented for!

[Les Henson]

The TD engine suffers from heat stress which usually results in cracked pistons. If you maintain the cooling system in good order and service it regularly, then it'll last a good few miles. You could try installing an intercooler to lower combustion temperatures, which is the main problem.

Look for oil being blown into the air filter, excessive engine breathing, and spontaneous oil leaks from the rocker gasket, breather/air pipe connections and filler cap.

It's quite often a good idea to buy a good condition cheap 90 or 100 with the earlier engine in and then fit a 200 or 300 TDi engine. This is a picture of one of the pistons in catflap. Two of them were like this and I replaced all 4, which cost almost £200.

Les.

[nobber]

Look for oil being blown into the air filter and spontaneous oil leaks from the rocker gasket.

mine suffers from this , in fact id say most do.

is this due to the engine pressurising from worn rings?

[Matt Neale]

funny to see how people with TDIs fondly remember the engine they spent a lot of ££ to replace.

the engine is under powered over stressed an a waste of ££ repairing when a 200tdi is so readily available

it is a quantum leap in every way over the 2.5n/a /2.5TD

save yourself the aggro and find/save for a TDi

Don't be so obtuse.

Just pointing out that the 19J has an undeserved reputation, that's all. Not everyone has money to burn and the 19J is a simple engine which if maintained correctly will be more than adequate. Defender spec 200Tdi engines are like hens teeth anyway, and fitting a Disco Tdi to a Defender is a lot more involved.

Sure, I replaced mine with a Defender 200 Tdi - I do a lot of heavy towing and the original 19J I had not been looked after by the previous owner, so I took the option which suited me at the time.

Matt

[Les Henson]

mine suffers from this , in fact id say most do.

is this due to the engine pressurising from worn rings?

There's no real way of telling it's worn rings or a cracked piston without taking the head off, which in itself is not a difficult thing to do. Worn rings or cracked pistons involve the same amount of labour to put right, so in that respect you have nothing to lose. Worn rings can be lived with for the time being, but with a cracked piston - paranoia sets in and you might think that the next time the engine runs the piston will disintegrate and destroy the engine. It's likely that the piston has been cracked for a while, so it's a bit unlikely (though not impossible) that this would happen.

Les.

[nobber]

would a compression test tell what it is?

i mean , if compression was down on one cylinder that would indicate a cracked piston , where as low compression on all four would indicate worn rings right?

also would worn valve stems have the same symptoms?

[Les Henson]

I suppose a weak cylinder might tell a story, but valves rarely wear the same on all the cylinders and the problem could be a valve. A wet/dry test would specify rings/cracked piston as opposed to worn valves. You could take a best guess I suppose, but low compression on one cylinder could still be one of three things.

Les.

[white90]

Don't be so obtuse.

Just pointing out that the 19J has an undeserved reputation, that's all. Not everyone has money to burn and the 19J is a simple engine which if maintained correctly will be more than adequate. Defender spec 200Tdi engines are like hens teeth anyway, and fitting a Disco Tdi to a Defender is a lot more involved.

Sure, I replaced mine with a Defender 200 Tdi - I do a lot of heavy towing and the original 19J I had not been looked after by the previous owner, so I took the option which suited me at the time.

Matt

Don't be so touchy Matt it is unlike you.

nice choice of words though

[nobber]

how do you do a wet/dry test?

[Happyoldgit]

I hoping this will turn into the definitive 2.5 TD thread so that in future when someone else inevitably asks about how good / bad they are Uncle Ralph or I can direct them to it.

[Gromit]

how do you do a wet/dry test?

Do a compression test.

Then put some oil in each cylinder and retest. If the values change (higher compression), then that would indicate that the oil sitting on the compression ring is increasing the compression, thus the rings are worn.

I think though that there is a risk that the oil can just end up sitting in the swirl pot on top of the piston, rather than going down to the rings, and falsify the readings.

[Matt Neale]

Don't be so touchy Matt it is unlike you.

nice choice of words though

Tail end of a cr@p week at work - just caught me at a bad time that's all.

Been called worse though..!

Matt