Diff Lock woes?

[MINESAPINT]

I am of the opinion my Diff Lock is not working. My vehicle is a 110 Td5 HT Year 2000. I have never used the Diff Lock myself but when I picked it up from a service about 4 years ago at a main dealer in Stockton near Middlesbrough I notice while driving away from the garage the tyres were squealing on roundabouts & when turning corners. I realised after about 1 mile the vehicle had its diff lock engaged. I disengaged it and drove back to the garage to remonstrate with them. FACE BOTHERED - were they ....

I have not had the need to engage the diff lock since until today on the beach. I noticed the diff lock warning light did not illuminate and as far as I could tell I was stuck in the sand with 1 wheel only happily burying itself! This suggests to me NO DIFF LOCK.

Any suggeations.

Thanks

MINESAPINT

[simonb]

With rear axle on ground and handbrake on, engine off and ign on, jack up one front wheel clear of ground. With main gearbox in neutral and transfer in gear and diff lock OUT you should be able to rotate jacked wheel by hand. Now hold diff lock lever over to left and at the same time keep rotating front wheel - you need long arms or a friend. Wheel should rotate slightly then lock solid. Diff lock light should light up. Once lock has engaged you can let go of lever. There is a spring in the mechanism and if you don't hold it over to the left until its engaged, it might not.

To disengage, hold lever to right, wiggle/rotate jacked wheel back and forth and the lock should undo, wheel spin freely, light goes out.

If that doesn't work, check linkages aren't siezed/gummed up with mud. PITA to see but use a bright torch and you will see them (from underneath). Check bulb is ok. Finally check switch isn't screwed in too far. If the diff lock hasn't been used, its most likely to be the first problem, last is least likely.

[MINESAPINT]

Thanks Simon I will have a go tomorrow. Confused by one thing, there is a choice of Hi or Lo Diff Lock?

MINESAPINT

[simonb]

Thanks Simon I will have a go tomorrow. Confused by one thing, there is a choice of Hi or Lo Diff Lock?

MINESAPINT

Either or, doesn't make any difference to diff lock operation

[JST]

Hi Diff is Diff lock in High range, ie driving across a slippery surface but at normal speeds such as a wet field where 1st/2bnd are OK

(note i say OK as i would personally prob use 3-5th in low for that purpose)

Low Diff is low range engaged with the diff locked. you use low for anything where you want low speed control, offroading, trailer reversing, parrallel parking etc.

There is a neutral in there as well.

Imagine high and low as being the two front cogs on a bike. the main gearbox is the rear chain set.

the normal box works the same as a bike that is you can use all the gears on the back with either the big (hi) or small (low) gog on the front

But same as a bike not all the gears are always compatable across the whole range.

Plus theres is some repetition ie low 3rd = high 1st (or as near as a,d low 5th = high 2nd)

[101sean]

tsk tsk, member of a LR forum and you allow your diff lock to fail through lack of use!!

Diff lock works in high or low, moving the lever to the left actuates the lock.

Does the lever actually move? When I bought my 2000CSW it was obvious it had never been used, the cross shaft had rusted up and no movement at all. Released by keyhole surgery (removed gaiter) to extract the housing and then belting shaft back and forth with a copper mallet until free.

The external mechanism is a wobbly collection of bent rods and metal, needs to be all there to work. I've found an e clip missing off the pivot on the side of a gearbox allowing the lever to move and not engage diff lock.

Even if you don't need it, the diff lock should be engaged occaisionally to keep mechanism free. Reckon majority of Disco diff locks are siezed.

Simon has given the definitive testing method

[dougstar]

follow this link until you get to the drilling out if the rivits stage, once you have done this you will gain access to the gear change housing (on the transfer box) pop out the 4 10mm bolts to expose the in side of the gear change housing.

once you have done this you will see the long cross shaft running through the middle of this, where it passes through the end cover is the most likely point of siezure!

by releasing the end cover (i needed i impact driver for the phillips heads) you can free it off and re-grease.

i have just done this tonight as part of changing the clutch via the EXCELLANT link from above, as my diff lock had siezed too but for what reason i do not know becasue it was in constant use then all of a sudden BANG nothing.

anyway hope this helps and i will try and post pictures soon including one of the MOD i am hopeing to make to the side of the end cover!!!

dougstar B)

[dougstar]

hope this picture explains the above???

dougstar

[MINESAPINT]

Thanks for replies. Although the lever is stiff I can shift it into 4 distinct positions. Hi & Lo normal and Hi & Lo Diff Lock. In Diff Lock mode the short lever is in a vertical position relative to the fore & aft line of the vehicle. In normal drive the lever is leaning 20 degrees or so toward the drivers side. I think complete seizure can be ruled out. It is possible that one of the external links has come adrift - will check. I would have been thinking the problem was the bulb but as I was stuck yesterday with only 1 wheel spinning it looks as though the lock is not engaging. I am of the opinion with the lock engaged the vehicle should be 2 wheel drive.

Hope to have a look today & post later.

MINESAPINT

[bigfatsi]

Thanks for replies. Although the lever is stiff I can shift it into 4 distinct positions. Hi & Lo normal and Hi & Lo Diff Lock. In Diff Lock mode the short lever is in a vertical position relative to the fore & aft line of the vehicle. In normal drive the lever is leaning 20 degrees or so toward the drivers side. I think complete seizure can be ruled out. It is possible that one of the external links has come adrift - will check. I would have been thinking the problem was the bulb but as I was stuck yesterday with only 1 wheel spinning it looks as though the lock is not engaging. I am of the opinion with the lock engaged the vehicle should be 2 wheel drive.

Hope to have a look today & post later.

MINESAPINT

Dunno where you are but I'm in Stockton and would be happy to have a look at it for you. Had similiar problems with mine. Gimme a PM or a call on 07883 086251 if you need any help.

Simon

[sgnas]

am of the opinion with the lock engaged the vehicle should be 2 wheel drive.

MINESAPINT

Yep, with the centre diff locked you should have been stuck with one front and one rear wheel spinning uselessly

[paintman]

Don't forget that even with the difflock engaged, if one wheel on the front axle and one wheel on the rear axle have no grip then you will be stuck.

All the difflock does is send equal power to the axle diffs.

Causes a lot of confusion!

[MINESAPINT]

Did not get chance to look at Diff Lock today so nothing to report. May have a go tomorrow. However spoke to local farmer who has 300Tdi 110 and his Diff Lock is engaged and it will not disengage! Been stuck in for a couple of weeks but he has not been on tarmac yet so no problems.

His vehicle spends most of its time up to its oxters in mud & cow s%*£. I suppose the external linkages might require some attention/lubricating.

Any ideas?

Thanks

MINESAPINT

[MINESAPINT]

Ref my understanding of how a Diff Lock works. Shortly after buying my first Land Rover over 20 years ago I became stuck on my own front lawn! I had previously been unable to get my lawn mower stuck!

I contacted Land Rover who advised me everyone else was perfectly happy with the vehicles, learn to drive and buy some more appropriate tyres suitable for the terrain you expect to encounter. It was then I realised the vehicle was in fact 1 wheel drive when you most need it to be 4 wheel drive!

About 10 years later Land Rover started fitting Diff Locks and as has been indicated in this thread the diff lock does give 2 wheel drive providing it is working!

I am sure one day the vehicles will be genuine 4 wheel drive when it is most needed. Maybe the new ones are already?

MINESAPINT

[JST]

new ones arent but they do have an optional locking rear diff on the D3, RRV, RRS which, with the center diff lock is guaranteed drive to 3 wheels. that in conjunction with TC seems to work well.

so they are genuine 3 wheel drive when in slippery conditions but not quite that 4x4

But then they are 4 wheel drive when all 4 wheels have equal traction, (or all 4 wheels have no traction) its only when you loose traction it becomes a problem....

a centre locking diff only guarantees drive to one wheel on each axle as mentioned above

[MINESAPINT]

Something to report.

Been round to the farm today and conducted the definitive test on my Td5 and the farmers 300Tdi. To save anyone re-reading the thread my diff lock will not engage as far as I can tell ad the farmers is engaged permanently or so we thought. Simons definitive test has sorted it as follows:

Farmers 300Tdi - Diff lock working perfectly but light never goes out! Obviously electrical problem.

My Td5 - Diff lock does not engage. I did find the external linkages referred to previously in this thread, look like they have been constructed from a box of Mecano. Difficult to observe the movement at the top of the linkage but can clearly see a pivot point on a threaded stud on the side of the gear box. Can also observe clearly the movement of the lever on the top of the transfer box and note it moves laterally about half an inch. The linkages are held together with spring washers and such as it is seems to be in perfect working order.

I will take the opportunity to have a look at another Td5 if I get the chance but in the meantime comments/suggestions are very welcome.

Thanks

MINESAPINT

[callum]

Something to report.

Been round to the farm today and conducted the definitive test on my Td5 and the farmers 300Tdi. To save anyone re-reading the thread my diff lock will not engage as far as I can tell ad the farmers is engaged permanently or so we thought. Simons definitive test has sorted it as follows:

Farmers 300Tdi - Diff lock working perfectly but light never goes out! Obviously electrical problem.

My Td5 - Diff lock does not engage. I did find the external linkages referred to previously in this thread, look like they have been constructed from a box of Mecano. Difficult to observe the movement at the top of the linkage but can clearly see a pivot point on a threaded stud on the side of the gear box. Can also observe clearly the movement of the lever on the top of the transfer box and note it moves laterally about half an inch. The linkages are held together with spring washers and such as it is seems to be in perfect working order.

I will take the opportunity to have a look at another Td5 if I get the chance but in the meantime comments/suggestions are very welcome.

Thanks

MINESAPINT

take your middle seat out or cubby box and remove the hatch underneath. this will give you a pretty clear view of what is going on when you move the lever. drive about slowly and try operating the lever and watch what is happening. do it on a very quiet or private road though.

[MINESAPINT]

Cheers Callum,

Good thinking, will do and report in due course.

Thanks

MINESAPINT

[MINESAPINT]

Thanks everyone who contributed to this thread. Diff Lock now working perfectly! Clearly the problem was due to the linkages being seized between the lever & the transfer box. A combination of lubricating, gaining better access and waggling the lever around a lot did the trick.

Thanks

MINESAPINT

[bloodknock]

I appear to have a very similar problem with my TD5 its a late vehicle (2006) 73k Miles and a bit of a pup! the lever is stiff and does not appear to engage the diff lock, no lights appear in the panel. I'm new to the newer LR's and am still finding my way arround. So far have fixed intermittent lack of power....Injector loom and corroded main fuse box wiring, Inside of drivers seat box, had liberal distribution of solidified emulsified sheep Sh***t so all connectors corroded! Have another problem... there are three black plastic pipes about 6mm ID tucked up behind the engine attached to nothing! They all appear to be deliberately routed to this spot.......Anybody got any ideas??? Also I would like to get hold of a good workshop manual and circuit diagrams ...Suggestions???

As a final aside, is anyone aware of issues with camshaft / follower wear? I noticed, during the injector loom change that my number three cam lobe, from the front, appears to be gauling and there appears to be slight damage to the edge of the follower roller, is this likely to go catastrophic in the near future? Whats it like to change a camshaft?

[crclifford]

I appear to have a very similar problem with my TD5 its a late vehicle (2006) 73k Miles and a bit of a pup! the lever is stiff and does not appear to engage the diff lock, no lights appear in the panel. I'm new to the newer LR's and am still finding my way arround. So far have fixed intermittent lack of power....Injector loom and corroded main fuse box wiring, Inside of drivers seat box, had liberal distribution of solidified emulsified sheep Sh***t so all connectors corroded! Have another problem... there are three black plastic pipes about 6mm ID tucked up behind the engine attached to nothing! They all appear to be deliberately routed to this spot.......Anybody got any ideas??? Also I would like to get hold of a good workshop manual and circuit diagrams ...Suggestions???

As a final aside, is anyone aware of issues with camshaft / follower wear? I noticed, during the injector loom change that my number three cam lobe, from the front, appears to be gauling and there appears to be slight damage to the edge of the follower roller, is this likely to go catastrophic in the near future? Whats it like to change a camshaft?

Those black pipes with the 6mm ID are probably breathers, not sure entirely what they attach to, but probably the gearbox/transfer box (Sure someone with a better understanding will be along soon!), with the manual side of the things, if you look in the Tech Archive, you should find a link to Retroanaconda's website with the parts manual on it.

Hope that helps

Chris

[Gromit]

I appear to have a very similar problem with my TD5 its a late vehicle (2006) 73k Miles and a bit of a pup! the lever is stiff and does not appear to engage the diff lock, no lights appear in the panel.

As per the thread, lubricate and free the linkage from the lever to the transfer box.

Once the linkage is freed up, check the diff is locking by lifting one of the wheels.

If that works then look at the light, which is a switch that screws into the transfer box.

I recently discovered that diff lock doesn't work when the box contains no oil You might want to check that too!

Have another problem... there are three black plastic pipes about 6mm ID tucked up behind the engine attached to nothing!

They are breathers for the front axle, transfer and gearboxes. They allow equalisation of pressure as the axle/gearbox changes temperate.

[Anderzander]

The 6mm I'd pipes routed to the back of the head are the breather pipes for the axles etc.

[bloodknock]

Hey thanks guys, feel much better about the pipes now. Will tackle the txfr box / diff loc at the weekend and report back. Anyone ever changed a camshaft??? / follower???.

I love this meccano stuff, its good to get back to it after all these years. My first "back in the day 1967!!" was a 2 lt series 1, wish I still had it, real unbreakable agricultural stuff.Thanks again

[tweetyduck]

I appear to have a very similar problem with my TD5 its a late vehicle (2006) 73k Miles and a bit of a pup! the lever is stiff and does not appear to engage the diff lock, no lights appear in the panel. I'm new to the newer LR's and am still finding my way arround. So far have fixed intermittent lack of power....Injector loom and corroded main fuse box wiring, Inside of drivers seat box, had liberal distribution of solidified emulsified sheep Sh***t so all connectors corroded! Have another problem... there are three black plastic pipes about 6mm ID tucked up behind the engine attached to nothing! They all appear to be deliberately routed to this spot.......Anybody got any ideas??? Also I would like to get hold of a good workshop manual and circuit diagrams ...Suggestions???

As a final aside, is anyone aware of issues with camshaft / follower wear? I noticed, during the injector loom change that my number three cam lobe, from the front, appears to be gauling and there appears to be slight damage to the edge of the follower roller, is this likely to go catastrophic in the near future? Whats it like to change a camshaft?

Those pipes are likely to be breathers. Do they have a hook, sharp bend on the end?

You need the RAVE manual. I posted the link today in another thread. Find my posts from today and one of them includes the link to the RAVE CD.