TDV8 for use in a Raid Defender....

[Oilworker]

Hi,

I am currently planning my new Raid Defender and was offered a TDV8 engine today, that's only got 12.000 miles.

It comes without the gearbox and without all the wiring.

Now my questions:

What's a good price for this engine?

Do I need to buy a new wiring-loom or can I wire it myself(if yes, where can I get a wiring diagram?

What gearbox would you recommend?

Thanx,

Robert

[zardos]

Sorry no idea on the answers to your questions but would also be interested in the answers.

As I have wondered about replace the aging tunned 3.9L V8 in my defender with a TDV8 (I could never go for any of the other puny diesels)

Thanks

[LandyManLuke]

I'm guessing you'll be paving the way when it comes to stand-alone custom ECU work.

The engine would be worthless if you couldn't get it to run....

[Oilworker]

I now and that's what I am thinking about now.

Any suggestions?

Thanx, Robert

[FridgeFreezer]

Really unless you can put a mechanical injection system on it you need to get the ECU and make it happy enough to run outside of it's normal surroundings.

Unfortunately MegaSquirt can't currently control those beasties as there is more to do to make a diesel run - you need to control injection start and stop timing as well as volume and you need to do it per cylinder, it's on the horizon with the new sequencer board but that's still very much in development/testing.

[Oilworker]

:( :(

Who could I ask for help on this rather nice engine?

I am not yet willing to give up on this offer.

Thanx, Robert

I am going to get myelf a beer at the hotel bar now

[FridgeFreezer]

I'd investigate the price of the ECU - since it's so new it may be one of those things where there is no demand so the price is very low. Not many TDV8 owners would go to a scrapyard for an ECU, they'd go to LR and get it new.

I'd also investigate just how much of an arse it will be to make the ECU run outside of a Range Rover or Disco 3 - if it has to talk to the alarm etc. then it may be almost impossible, if it's easily fooled however you may yet succeed.

Hell, even a wiring diagram would be a good start.

[jules]

Overfinch boast they can get more out of the TDV8 than the 4.2 supercharged equivalent....

Would than mean they know a fair bit about the engines

is it worth tapping them up for some sponsorship in the way of help with getting it running instead on money

Its a very very long shot but if you don't try you don't know...

[Oilworker]

Thanx, but where I can get a wiring-plan?

Thanx for the hint about Overfinch, I will try to contact them the coming days.

Cheers, Robert

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Theres a very clever chappie (Known as Baldrick) who does all sorts of wiring probs etc for RRs generally,

I saw him recently and he was telling me the tale he had on a very modern RR which has a 'network system' bulit into the electrics making diagnostics and repairs a nightmare, not sure what he called the wiring loom, but it was 'fibres' rather than 'wires', and again he had a mare sorting it out (main delaer called him in )

His comment was that the entire system was interdependant and resisted 'fiddling', ie the engine wouldn't work without the full network in place and even then he has to then set everything via a PC with the correct codes before it would talk to each unit............ and hence run.

I would do some research to see if this technology has 'leaked' into TDV8s if so you have some fun ahead ?

Nige

[q-rover]

You mean a CAN network, that most modern vehicles use?

[Dave78]

Theres a very clever chappie (Known as Baldrick) who does all sorts of wiring probs etc for RRs generally,

I saw him recently and he was telling me the tale he had on a very modern RR which has a 'network system' bulit into the electrics making diagnostics and repairs a nightmare, not sure what he called the wiring loom, but it was 'fibres' rather than 'wires', and again he had a mare sorting it out (main delaer called him in )

His comment was that the entire system was interdependant and resisted 'fiddling', ie the engine wouldn't work without the full network in place and even then he has to then set everything via a PC with the correct codes before it would talk to each unit............ and hence run.

I would do some research to see if this technology has 'leaked' into TDV8s if so you have some fun ahead ?

Nige

Yep, all that is on - you could choose between the many electrical databuses that are currently on a TDV8 - and an optical one for the Infotainment (radio, sat nav etc). It is technically true that you need to have all of the system in place for it to work correctly, and for it to be all correctly coded (after all the car needs to know what it is and what it has fitted).

You can get it to work by faking parts of the system to the remainder of the vehicle. I do this all the time - I suppose I should say I work for Land Rover and test certain aspects of the electrical/optical system - all you need is the correct software, hardware interface and the knowledge/configs to make it all work. The software and hardware interfaces you can buy over the counter, the knowledge/configs - well it's more than my job is worth... and even then I only know a very small part - and you know what they say about alittle bit of knowledge...

Enjoy

Dave

[T1G UP]

I've personally transplanted a modern engine into an old car, 225 hp TT engine and box etc into a mk1 golf. Without ALL the loom and a very good software man i wouldn't even entertain it.

Because you have to fool the ecu thats its sill in the car that it was designed for and then get the immobiliser removed,defeated,make it think it still has a/c, a gearbox,traction control,automatic lights........the list goes on.

Without the fault codes cleared it only runs in limp home mode so no boost etc.

If you've got the money either buy a smashed up one that has servicable parts,buy a good one and do an insurance job! or go with a tried and tested engine conversion IMO.

[Oilworker]

Well, just what I somehow expected

That'll either mean, taking the engine, building a black box with the help of a few geniuses and then having the fun of my life in a TDV8 powered 100" Defender....sometime in the distant future....or????

a lot of beer and continuing the search for a nice, strong and tough diesel for this poject.....

Take or not to take is the question, isn't?

Thanx & cheers,

Robert

[FridgeFreezer]

Likesay, if it were petrol it would be easy as you could rip it all off and fit MegaSquirt (the MS2 in fact supporting CAN bus communications), it's possible (and could be worth asking the question on the MS forum) that diesel control is not far off and you may be able to put a bit of time and money in and become a test subject.

However, with this sort of modern jiggery pokery I do think "if you have to ask" - I've heard some engines the injectors (and almost everything else) have their own codes so unless you have the original ECU and injectors it won't run without the intervention of the dealer and a lot of £££ time spent on their diagnostics computer.

[q-rover]

However, with this sort of modern jiggery pokery I do think "if you have to ask" - I've heard some engines the injectors (and almost everything else) have their own codes so unless you have the original ECU and injectors it won't run without the intervention of the dealer and a lot of £££ time spent on their diagnostics computer.

That's certainly true of the Td5...

[tiddler]

The man who can help you is Jeremy Fearn.

He has just become UK distibutor for Bosch Diesel Motorsport engine management systems. If you fit one of these you can apparently bin all of the existing wiring and management, which as has been stated has all sorts of cross-referencing security built in and is (almost) impossible to botch together from a road car.

You would then have a fully mappable stand alone system which should happily run the TDV8.

However it costs in the region of £5000

Although, if you can pick up a s/h full engine for £1K or so, your total build cost shouldn't be far off a that of a nicely built large capacity petrol RV8 with mapped injection.

If you get it sorted, please let me know as it is exactly what I want to do, but I do not want to be the first!!

Giles

[T1G UP]

Love it Tiddler

[landmannnn]

The US are normally far more advanced than we are tuning engines. It might be worth a look around around some of the forums or vendors to see if you could use a programmable ecu designed for one of their engines.

the diesel place forum?

[ajh]

Has anything more come up on this? I know you can use the Simtek system for the TDV6; but I've seen a V8 for offer at a reasonable cost. This would be for a Desert Warrior.

[Off Road Toad]

I understood it that Simtek uk do stand alone Ecu's and wiring looms for both the TDV6 and TDV8 so you can run the engines in comp vehicles etc. not cheap though. Also i dont know if the TDV8 shares gearboxs with the V6 disco's but i know there is an adapter available to mate a v6 to a zf auto from a 3.9 disco 1, here you go

it is actually Simtek who've done this.

Steve

Just seen earlier post relating to this, apologies.

[q-rover]

BAS has done a Tdv6 and are trying a Tdv8 I think. but this is (possibly) common knowledge.

[missingsid]

• Location:Near Warwick, Warwickshire, UK, Europe, Earth, Milky Way, Universe... What's bigger then the universe?????
  

Dave

Erm Infinity?

Marc.