Parking Fine

[MINESAPINT]

In Whitby (North Yorks) the other day and got a parking fine. It is the first one in my driving career which spans over 30 years. I do not feel I parked incorrectly as my understanding has always been (for 30 odd years) that if parking restrictions were in force there would be yellow lines on the road which would serve to draw your attention to that fact. You could then look for signs at the roadside which would give specific details. On the road in question there are NO YELLOW LINES whatsoever but after receiving the fixed penalty notice I had a look round and did indeed spot a notice which indicated parking limited to 40 minutes. I had parked there quite innocently for around 10 hours.

I admit I last read the highway code over 30 years ago prior to taking my test and wonder if anyone is more "up to speed"?

Thanks

MINESAPINT

[Ryan]

In Whitby (North Yorks) the other day and got a parking fine. It is the first one in my driving career which spans over 30 years. I do not feel I parked incorrectly as my understanding has always been (for 30 odd years) that if parking restrictions were in force there would be yellow lines on the road which would serve to draw your attention to that fact. You could then look for signs at the roadside which would give specific details. On the road in question there are NO YELLOW LINES whatsoever but after receiving the fixed penalty notice I had a look round and did indeed spot a notice which indicated parking limited to 40 minutes. I had parked there quite innocently for around 10 hours.

I admit I last read the highway code over 30 years ago prior to taking my test and wonder if anyone is more "up to speed"?

Thanks

MINESAPINT

IIRC the yellow lines are for restrictions in actual parking e.g. no parking between certain times. If it is parking bay with limited parking i.e. 40 mins and no return withing 1 hr etc, then there should be no yellow lines. There are probably regulations on how far away the sign has to be, but I've no clue on what it should be.

[RRX]

www.pepipoo.com have a browse around as they are helpfull with alot of things

[rtbarton]

Are you sure you were actually on the road? It's not always that obvious. The DVLA clamped an untaxed car near me which appeared to be parked right at the end of a cul-de-sac, what they didn't know was that the last 50 yards of the road were in fact private property.

[MINESAPINT]

Thanks for replies,

Discoryan's interpretation of the situation is pretty accurate. Parking bays are marked out on the road, some of which are identified as being reserved for disabled drivers (I was not in one of these). After getting the notification of the offence I did spot the sign which was very close to where I parked but far from obvious fastened to the wall of a shop. Obviously I am now aware yellow lines are not the determining factor re parking restrictions.

MINESAPINT

[MINESAPINT]

I looked at pepipoo which states the laws on signage are very precise. If the signage does not comply precisely with the requirement of the law then the sign does not exist in law. Critically reference is made to signs on poles. In my case there are no signs on poles - the sign is attached to a shop wall at the other side of the footpath. Reference is also made to illumination of signs. It is likely the signs are not lawful but for £30 is it worth the hassle particularly as the fine goes up to £60 in 14 days!

MINESAPINT

[Guest diesel_jim]

I looked at pepipoo which states the laws on signage are very precise. If the signage does not comply precisely with the requirement of the law then the sign does not exist in law. Critically reference is made to signs on poles. In my case there are no signs on poles - the sign is attached to a shop wall at the other side of the footpath. Reference is also made to illumination of signs. It is likely the signs are not lawful but for £30 is it worth the hassle particularly as the fine goes up to £60 in 14 days!

MINESAPINT

I suggest you go and park your car in the same spot where you got the ticket, then take lots of pictures of the signs/road marking etc.

that way you've got some evidence before the council suddenly decide to "modernise" the signs in that street.

[will_warne]

I suggest you go and park your car in the same spot where you got the ticket, then take lots of pictures of the signs/road marking etc.

that way you've got some evidence before the council suddenly decide to "modernise" the signs in that street.

But is it worth the hassle for £30? I had something simerlar recently where I got ticketed in a car that I was hovering after about 3 minutes on a single yellow (engine running, indicating, hand brake not on) and I was tempted to appeal but it just wasn't worth it for £20!

[MINESAPINT]

In the absence of coming across any definitive information in the next day or so I will pay the £30. Unfortunately I am one of the uninformed masses prepared to pay up for a quiet life. Pepipoo did direct me to a site containing all the regulations about road signs and markings but the document runs to 500 or 1000 pages or so!

I will re-visit the scene of the crime again soon in daylight and review the circumstances.

Thanks for replies

MINESAPINT

[GBMUD]

If there is a restriction as detailed above then there has to be white markings on the road to indicate parking bays. If these bays do not conform to the rules then you have another defence. I refer you to pages 116 on in this document. I have not seen ANY parking bays that meet the specs. Look at the regs on yellow lines too, surprising how many of them are not enforceable.

As to whether or not it is worth it for £30, it is for me. You only have to write a letter to the appeals dept. stating why you should not have been ticketed. If they later took you to court, despite being in possession of the facts, you would have a good case to claim costs anyway I would have thought.

Will; if a parking vulture starts writing a ticket and you then drive away before the ticket touches your car (or you accept it) then the ticket has not been issued and cannot stand. Been there, done it and heard nothing.

FWIW, many parking tickets in areas where parking had been decriminalised (area where tickets are issued by "Parking attendants" and not by police) are not valid . There are all sorts of rules and regs, see Consumer Action Group for details.

Of course, I am not trained to give legal advice.

Chris

[alex park]

despite the fact that you paid the fine, you may still appeal to the council, as suggested, take photo's of the area and include these with your appeal.

what you must remember is that many councils place these signs after "public consultation" however fail to consult with the very definite laws concerning parking and signage.

Speaking as a police officer who very rarely (if ever) gives out parking tickets. (this sort of stuff is the domain of the wardens and subsequent attendants, i have heard of many people who justly appeal against these fines.

To be sure there are those people who, knowingly park in places that they should not and play the numbers game, ie park somwhere 30 times not having to pay £3.

but get a £30 once, thus saving £60.

but, i would appeal the fine after you have paid it, that way you cannot lose out other than what you would have anyway, (if that makes sense)

Alex

[Adz]

but, i would appeal the fine after you have paid it, that way you cannot lose out other than what you would have anyway, (if that makes sense)

Ah if only life were that simple... frequently there will be an 'admission of guilt' clause built into the payment of the fine - i.e. "he must of dunnit guv, cos 'ee paid up dinnee!"

NPAS site is worth looking at - check first whether your local council is affiliated with the scheme as some aren't - http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/IveRecei...hallengePCN.asp

Cheers,

[Blippie]

It is likely the signs are not lawful but for £30 is it worth the hassle particularly as the fine goes up to £60 in 14 days!

You need to write to them quick, stating that you are prepared to pay the fine within the 14 days, but first you would like them to answer the questions about the issuing of the ticket and the location of the signs. That should "stop the clock" and you time to plead your case.

I got ticketed in a car that I was hovering after about 3 minutes on a single yellow (engine running, indicating, hand brake not on)

And brake not on? And I guess the fine for the "parking offence" would be cheaper than a potential fine for leaving a vehicle with the engine running!

Road law id a funny old game, isn't it. I'm of the opinion that the whole thing is too complicated. It doesn't need to e thousands of pages of law and regulations. It needs to be simple, enforcable and consistant.

Cheers

Blippie

[Simon_CSK]

Ah my favourite subject "Rules"

I enjoy a good case of car and mouse with the legalities and have spent many years "getting away" with minor traffic offences ie parking and the occasional speeding. The law is very complex and there are all sorts of law which impact on all sorts of laws. Whilst not being legally qualified I have represented myself in court and won.

On speaking with a client of mine who was a solicitor he advised that the signs are critical and if not placed correctly then then the law cannot be applied. If the 30 sign for example is not at 90 degrees to the road it does not exist. If yellow lines do not have end stops then they are not enforceable. When looking for a place to park I will always seek out a line that does not have an end stop or has a break in it and before leaving my car I use my phone to take a photo.

I have never had to use it yet but would always write first sooner than pay the fine.

Always remember "the law is for the adherence of fools and the guidance of wise men" better £30 in my pocket than the coffers of the govenment.

Finally not qualified to offer legal advice so this is not advice just the way I deal with things