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What battery charger?


smo

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Hi Smo,

Ring only re-brand other peoples products, you will probably find thier product is a chinese copy of something like the C-Tek chargers (lots of poeple seem to be trying to copy these at the moment) The charging program will not be the same because C-Tek's engineers will have developed that in house, and there is no way they would sell the design to anyone else!! I don't know that much about Ring Chargers, but their inverters are just cheap chinese carp! manufactured by a company called Cotek in China.....can't imagine their chargers would be any/much better!! I suppose its like buying cars, many have the same features but you probably wouldn't buy the cheapest would you?

I can do you a good deal on a C-tek, might even be going into work this afternoon so could have a look for you then (if i remember!!)

If you just want a cheap intelligent charger then you can't beat the Sinergex Pure Charge, the program isn't as good as something like the C-tek or Fronius chargers but it is a proper multi stage charger that works out what the battery needs, rather then just running through the same old program again and again!

No charger should have any sort of switch that controls the charge rate, if the charger is any good it'll be able to work it out itself by sensing the batteries resistance and monitoring its ability to accept charge.

Thanks,

Matt

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Matt,

Can you clear up the definition of Ampere-Hours as applied to a battery. Is it the ampere-hours the battery can supply before the output drops to a certain level, the ah until it is totally flat or the ah required to charge the battery from a certain level to fully charged &c &c &c ??

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Matt,

Can you clear up the definition of Ampere-Hours as applied to a battery. Is it the ampere-hours the battery can supply before the output drops to a certain level, the ah until it is totally flat or the ah required to charge the battery from a certain level to fully charged &c &c &c ??

Hi rtbarton,

Amp hours are effectively how much power you have stored in the battery. If you have a 100A/H 12volt battery you effectively have 100A/H available to you. That means you could have a 1amp draw connected to the battery for 100hours and the battery would be 100% discharged at the end of it, however it is not recommended to discharge a battery further than 50% of its rated capacity, otherwise you drastically shorten the number of total cycles the battery can offer. See this graph for Lifeline AGM's

post-2678-1198954324_thumb.jpg

So your 100A/H battery only actually has 50 useable ampere-hours, ampere-hours are only really useful to someone who wants to run a piece of equipment for a length of time, the battery for this type of application would be known as a deep cycle battery, ideal for expedition vehicles. (See:Lifeline AGM Batteries)

If you want to start engines you need a starting battery, which will have a lower A/H capacity but much much higher CCA (cold cranking amps). (Small Odyssey Batteries)

Most normal batteries are somewhere between the two, known as a multi purpose battery. These are fine for starting your car and running the interior light and the radio for the short amount of time when you don't have the engine running. (See: Merlin Power Pack )

If you want to batteries for a winch challenge truck you need one that can produce extremely high instant power for getting winches going (High CCA) but also one that can withstand winching for a long time with the engine at idle (High A/H). The only battery that I have found able to do this effectively for a long period of time is the large batteries in the Odyssey range. (See: PC2150 and PC2250)

Batteries are also not an exact science, if you remove 9A/H's you will have to put 10 back in to be at the same level as you were before you removed 9!

You can find more info on battery technology here Battery Info Pack

I hope this is useful, if you have any other questions please don't hesitate to contact me!

Thanks,

Matt

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Cheers Matt, I'm well familiar with the terminology, just curious as to where the goalposts were.

I use a deep cycle battery in my blast room for the lights and breathing air blower, safe if I hit one with a piece of metal and they stay on during a power cut. I draw 10 amps so my 110 Ah battery would be good for about 5 hours continuous use. With breaks to fill the pots (blast pot and teapot) this represents a leisurely days work.

I'd need to put 60 Ah back into the battery, the off-peak period lasts for 7 hours so the 10A Sinergex Pure Charge should do this for me.

I was suprised that difference between what you draw out and what you put back is only about 10% I thought it was nearer 50

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Matt, just a quicky to say I haven't ignored your post, but as I said before, I can't speak for Charles Stirling (never met the man etc).

I can guess, from what is on his web site, what he would say about attending big shows, and putting the cost of those shows onto the products he is selling, when he can get the business he wants through word of mouth recommendations.

I agree that if build work is sub-contracted anywhere, then quality control and checking is essential.

I've only spoken with Charles Stirling once, and can see why a negative perception has built up, but I can't judge the warranty situation, as I've only bought one product. It's done both what it said on the tin, and without problem for several years.

I appreciate you sharing your experience, as I'm sure others on the forum do.

Don't let me put you off!!

Cheers.

Hi David,

I don't think there is anything wrong with "made in china" providing you manage your quality control correctly. The problems began to appear when products are designed in china.... One of the market leaders in charging technology has most of their products manufactured in India, because they pay close attention to quality control and all products are designed by their engineers, not the factory's, there is no problem.

Regarding Stirlings products directly, i have heard both good and bad about the range, but on the whole the overall perception is negative, firstly because of the reliability issues with most of the products, but secondly for the way customers are treated when they do try and return them for replacement/credit!

You'd struggle to find mr Stirling at an exhibition like the Southampton or London boat show, why would that be? surely you'd want the chance to exhibit your excellent products? These two shows are certainly very successful for every other company in the marine industry?

Obviously only my honest opinion, from working in that industry directly for 5 years +

Thanks,

Matt

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Cheers Matt, I'm well familiar with the terminology, just curious as to where the goalposts were.

I use a deep cycle battery in my blast room for the lights and breathing air blower, safe if I hit one with a piece of metal and they stay on during a power cut. I draw 10 amps so my 110 Ah battery would be good for about 5 hours continuous use. With breaks to fill the pots (blast pot and teapot) this represents a leisurely days work.

I'd need to put 60 Ah back into the battery, the off-peak period lasts for 7 hours so the 10A Sinergex Pure Charge should do this for me.

I was suprised that difference between what you draw out and what you put back is only about 10% I thought it was nearer 50

Hi rtbarton,

Sounds as if you've got the right battery for the job, yes the Sinergex 10A unit should be fine, the only possible problem may be the batteries charge acceptance rate (I.e. the battery cannot accept that much power in that short time period) but you should be fine. They all start off well but like capacity retention, this also deteriorates with time.

Charging systems and batteries themselves have become much more efficient over time, 10% is pretty much the norm now but historically it has been much much worse!!

Thanks,

Matt

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Hi rtbarton,

...... the only possible problem may be the batteries charge acceptance rate (I.e. the battery cannot accept that much power in that short time period) but you should be fine. ......

Thanks,

Matt

The way round that would be to start charging at midnight and leave it charging for longer, perhaps upto when I start work, that way the bulk charging will be done off-peak. That would give a good compromise between economy and keeping the battery charged.

Would the Sinergex 10A unit be happy being switched on whilst the load is applied to the battery?

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The way round that would be to start charging at midnight and leave it charging for longer, perhaps upto when I start work, that way the bulk charging will be done off-peak. That would give a good compromise between economy and keeping the battery charged.

Would the Sinergex 10A unit be happy being switched on whilst the load is applied to the battery?

This Sinergex 10amp is not a charger I've used personally (because I can borrow our workshop chargers at work) but we haven't had back and we've sold a good number of them. All customer feedback has been extremely positive. It won't have a problem being connected with the load applied providing the load is stable (no large motors stopping and starting etc).

Thanks,

Matt

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I hope you are pleased with it?

Most of the time yes, the only time you will need to charge a battery is because you've left something on, but it does the battery good to be connected to a proper charger from time to time. Believe it or not but your standard alternator will not be able to charge the battery much past about 80-85%, this is because the alternator uses a "constant voltage-variable current" charging program, (I.e. it’s always trying to charge your battery at whatever the regulator is set to, normally 14.2-14.4, and the current fluctuates with the batteries state of charge) These intelligent chargers do this for their first stage of charge (known as the Bulk Stage) This stage is designed to get the batteries to 80-85% in the shortest time possible. They then move onto the Absorption Stage, which is designed to condition the battery and replenish the remaining 15-20%, this stage can take as long as the bulk stage did. Then they will drop into a float stage which keeps the battery fully charged buy compensating for the batteries self discharge rate. Some of them have an extra 4th stage which is called Power Supply, this enables the user to operate loads up to the rated output of the charger without flattening the battery.

You can buy special regulators for your alternator which turn it from a normal constant voltage-variable current charge into a 3 or 4 stage intelligent charging system, however unless you are building an expedition vehicle I really wouldn't bother. Just give you battery a good boost with a decent charger every once in a while and it'll last much longer! If you are building an expedition vehicle then it’s definitely worth considering, think how much longer your power will last if you've got 100% when you stop the engine instead of 80-85%!!!

Thanks,

Matt

Matt,

Does the same apply to all batteries eg Optima?

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Matt,

Does the same apply to all batteries eg Optima?

Yes but probably not to the same extent, I don't know exactly what materials make up an Optima's plate but with Odyssey and Lifeline they use a 99.9% pure lead plate, which means the resistance is lower and therefore the point at which the alternator stops charging will be extended, but probably only to about 85-90%.

Thanks,

Matt

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Matt, just a quicky to say I haven't ignored your post, but as I said before, I can't speak for Charles Stirling (never met the man etc).

I can guess, from what is on his web site, what he would say about attending big shows, and putting the cost of those shows onto the products he is selling, when he can get the business he wants through word of mouth recommendations.

I agree that if build work is sub-contracted anywhere, then quality control and checking is essential.

I've only spoken with Charles Stirling once, and can see why a negative perception has built up, but I can't judge the warranty situation, as I've only bought one product. It's done both what it said on the tin, and without problem for several years.

I appreciate you sharing your experience, as I'm sure others on the forum do.

Don't let me put you off!!

Cheers.

No harm done David! Its good sharing purchasing experiances (its certainly one thing the forum is very useful for!) and I always like to hear peoples perception of both our products, and sometimes more importantly our competitors.

Thanks,

Matt

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I find the CTEK 3600 will charge a 105ah deep cycle if you wait long enough. It will charge it right up because it has settings for 14.4v and 14.7v.

I also have a CTEK XS800 which is permanently attached to one of my cars, though at .8a it is not a lot of good at charging a discharged battery except the very small ones.

At work we have a CTEK 2500 which has a setting to recondition a battery, charges at up to 16v at 25a and blows all the sulphate off (or the battery is stuffed and boils away). We have rescued a couple of duff batteries with this one.

My main starting battery in the 110 is a 674 95ah and I bought it in May 2001 :o

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