Range Rover P38 for offroading, any good?

[Young bobtail Rhys]

Just to point out it is not for me, my uncle is tempted but does not know how good they are. Can anybody help?

It would be replacing his 3.9 soft dash range rover se for the offroading, so would it be better or worst? The p38 is 4" wider, 108" wheelbase and 10" longer than a classic. Also, he is is two minds whether to look for the sluggish diesel and then have it chipped, or go for the 4.0/4.6 v8.

Bearing in mind, aftermarket parts are now becoming increasingly available, like the maxtraction suspension kit, ZU rims etc. But what about the vast amount of electronics, would they let him down?

Any views?

[Young bobtail Rhys]

What a plank!! I have put it in the wrong section, how do I move it? I put my other topic in the wrong section as well, muppet!! I never learn

[David Sparkes]

See near the top of the page, where it says 'My Assistant'?

Click that, then click 'Moderating Team'.

Below the Administrators you will see all the Moderators, click the down arrow against each one until you see the one(s) that Moderate the Classified Forum.

There is a PM button on the same line, use that to PM the Moderator and ask him to move your post.

Cheers.

[Young bobtail Rhys]

See near the top of the page, where it says 'My Assistant'?

Click that, then click 'Moderating Team'.

Below the Administrators you will see all the Moderators, click the down arrow against each one until you see the one(s) that Moderate the Classified Forum.

There is a PM button on the same line, use that to PM the Moderator and ask him to move your post.

Cheers.

Thanks for that info. I have done that so fingers crossed it should be sorted soon.

Rhys

[geoffbeaumont]

Moved as requested

[Young bobtail Rhys]

Thank you very much, won't be done again, honest

[geoffbeaumont]

beng lanes his P38a (diesel, manual), but I don't think he's ever done any serious off roading in it. His has been a bit troublesome but I guess no worse than my classic was. Someone on here used to have a properly prepped P38a, but I can't remember who it is.

What about a V8 on LPG? LPG is getting more expensive, but so is diesel so it probably still works out much the same in fuel costs - you're just trading range and convenience against performance and refinement. Although that said even the diesel is much more refined than a classic anyway. Ben's didn't feel particularly slow either when I drove it, compared to my Tdi Discovery - though I don't know how much difference there is in actual measurable performance.

[David Sparkes]

Does Uncle have any experience with 38A's, because there seem to be two questions here:

Which is preferred, and is it OK for laning. I'm assuming Laning means just that, Challenge events or 'Pay and Break' sites are something else again.

It is SteveG who had a 'prepped' 38A, but I don't think there is a lot of stuff available off the shelf, although I haven't heard of the specific kit you mention. You willl need to investigate tyres, and what style Uncle wants. The easy answer is that 16" wheels have more choice, but 18" wheels are more common, although the traditional evaluation is that the shallower sidewalls give a harder tarmac ride.

Consider renewing the suspension air bags, Arnott Gen 3 will enable an addtional inch or two to be engineered into the high setting. Rover Renovations i the address for any EAS bits.

If Uncle is laning we can assume it's low box work, and the diesel will be fine, although on the road it will be sluggish.

Whether you have a 'good' diesel conversion (Jeremy Fearn) or a sequential LPG (that doesn't backfire) the cost will be about £2k. LPG is probably cheaper than Diesel in terms of fuel cost per mile, but that conclusion needs double checking against current LPG prices. LPG tanks have to take up luggage space (or the spare wheel space, when the wheel takes up luggage space). You can't put decent LPG tanks underneath.

Don't assume all 38A's have Traction Control, because they don't.

Post '99 I think all do have 4 wheel ETC, but a '95 Diesel or 4.0 won't have any at all, while the 4.6 HSE had 2 wheel ETC at the rear.

The extra length isn't too much of a problem, because the car is raised on the Air Suspension (EAS).

The Width mainly means the bodywork gets more scratches than a Series, say, and the high gloss paint shows them strongly. Stone walls and stone gate pillars make the driver breath in a bit, but those may not be prevalent in Uncle's neck of the woods.

The weight is the biggest Green Lane problem. Think 2.5 tonnes with driver and kit. Fine on a firm surface, but always a negative on mud. What are the lanes like where Uncle goes off tarmac?

The electronics are no problem unless Uncle is determined to do the wilder Welsh rivers in Winter. Again, putting the suspension on High makes all the others look a bit sick.

That'll do for now, except if Uncle hasn't 38A experience I suggest that's the first hurdle to get over. Not everyone likes them.

[Young bobtail Rhys]

Does Uncle have any experience with 38A's, because there seem to be two questions here:

Which is preferred, and is it OK for laning. I'm assuming Laning means just that, Challenge events or 'Pay and Break' sites are something else again.

It is SteveG who had a 'prepped' 38A, but I don't think there is a lot of stuff available off the shelf, although I haven't heard of the specific kit you mention. You willl need to investigate tyres, and what style Uncle wants. The easy answer is that 16" wheels have more choice, but 18" wheels are more common, although the traditional evaluation is that the shallower sidewalls give a harder tarmac ride.

Consider renewing the suspension air bags, Arnott Gen 3 will enable an addtional inch or two to be engineered into the high setting. Rover Renovations i the address for any EAS bits.

If Uncle is laning we can assume it's low box work, and the diesel will be fine, although on the road it will be sluggish.

Whether you have a 'good' diesel conversion (Jeremy Fearn) or a sequential LPG (that doesn't backfire) the cost will be about £2k. LPG is probably cheaper than Diesel in terms of fuel cost per mile, but that conclusion needs double checking against current LPG prices. LPG tanks have to take up luggage space (or the spare wheel space, when the wheel takes up luggage space). You can't put decent LPG tanks underneath.

Don't assume all 38A's have Traction Control, because they don't.

Post '99 I think all do have 4 wheel ETC, but a '95 Diesel or 4.0 won't have any at all, while the 4.6 HSE had 2 wheel ETC at the rear.

The extra length isn't too much of a problem, because the car is raised on the Air Suspension (EAS).

The Width mainly means the bodywork gets more scratches than a Series, say, and the high gloss paint shows them strongly. Stone walls and stone gate pillars make the driver breath in a bit, but those may not be prevalent in Uncle's neck of the woods.

The weight is the biggest Green Lane problem. Think 2.5 tonnes with driver and kit. Fine on a firm surface, but always a negative on mud. What are the lanes like where Uncle goes off tarmac?

The electronics are no problem unless Uncle is determined to do the wilder Welsh rivers in Winter. Again, putting the suspension on High makes all the others look a bit sick.

That'll do for now, except if Uncle hasn't 38A experience I suggest that's the first hurdle to get over. Not everyone likes them.

Thank you for that in depth reply. We mainly do mild green laning around east anglia. Essex and Cambridgshire are most popular with us. Now the green lanes can vary from road chippings to lanes that are 200yds 3hrs, which would chllenge even the lockered simex 90! Most of us run around a 32" tall tyre, either 235/85r16 or 265/75r16. With that modification done to the air suspension that you suggested would, 255/85r16 tyres fit in side the arches, they are around 33.3" tall. Oh, and supose I should add they would be BF Goodrich M/T's. Our general offroading in terms of pay+play would be only mild and nothing too extreme as it would need to be driven home! Also we are not fond of water so 18"-2ft is really a max.

The air suspension would kept on as his current classic has it still on it and gets around remarkably well. I will mention to him to test drive one first as you recommended because as yet he is still to drive one.

The finally thing is that some of the greenlanes in our area are very tight, some trees are to be driven past with caution, so is gate posts, and obviously the overgrowth, which means as the P38 is wider, it will be down to the undercoat in no time, as all the other Landy's and Rangie's to drive these kinds of lanes are quite heavily stratched in places, even the narrower 90 and 110's.

Thanks Rhys

[stuntman]

I go out most days weekends with a group of friends, one has a standard P38 on 16's with general grabber tyres, it's a very capable vehicle and looks great covered in mud or climbing out of a ditch

[JSG]

I used to off-road mine which was a 2000 DSE auto. As mentioned this model year came with traction control which did work well off-road.

At the time after market kit was very limited and all I did was remove the lower lip from the front spoiler and fit some seat covers. With AT tyres they just seem to drive serenely through most stuff.

Wading didn't cause problems without a snorkle as long as you don't go too deep (a couple of people have fabricated kit in the past) and the only real limitation is the width.

And they look ok with a bit of dirt on B)

[Escape]

I have had and offroaded 2 P38a's, one a manual diesel, the other a 4.6 V8 auto.

The diesel sometimes lacked a bit of power, even in lowrange. It needs some revs to buil up power, which can be a problem on steep slopes.

The V8 is wonderfull, although I find the autobox gives me less control (I have always driven and offroaded with a manual, I expect I'll adapt my driving style soon enough).

The EAS is a great feat (when working...). There is even an emergency setting, this is activated by the ECU when it detects the vehicle is grounded and raises it a further 1". On one occasion this resulted in me driving of under my own power just when a friendly fellow LR-driver was ready to attach a towrope.

What I like a lot about the P38a is that it brings you anywhere in the utmost comfort. This is a great benefit on the road (for example to and from events) but also means the lanes themselves are more relaxing, especially on higher speed sections.

The size is obviously a bit of a disadvantage, and a P38a doesn't wear scratches and scarrs as wel as older LRs (or even a new Defender for that matter).

You're also wise to remove the front spoiler lip and mudflaps if fitted before you take it offroad. The rear towbar can act as a bit of a ground anchor but provides essential protection for the rear bumper (and exhaust).

The GENIII kit from RoverRenovations is great value, you can easily engineer an electronic 2" lift, get an even more comfortable ride and a bit more articulation when used with longer dampers.

As for tyres, I am now running 265/70R16 and having just lifted it will upgrade to 265/75R16. One problem concerning tyres is the speed index. I use mine as a daily driver so onroad performance is important. Living close to the German border means I also like to maintain the ability to safely cruise at 160 or 180 km/h. On the other hand, I'd like an aggressive tyre for when I go laning and can't be bothered to switch between 2 sets.

I'll probably have to settle for ATs as a compromise.

At the moment, accesoires are not easy to come by, but I expect this to improve as the cars get older, cheaper and thus more often used as offroaders.

The ETC is an important factor when buying one. As stated, many of the older models don't have it.

Final note, a P38a is a complex machine, with a lot of nice features, but also a lot that could go wrong. Be prepared to invest some time and money to keep it in optimal shape. A dependable local mechanice WITH ROVACOM is also an important asset.

Greetz,

Filip

[SteveG]

255/85's do fit...

You'll need to lightly trim inner wheel arches, lose the mud guards and they may not fit with a standard front bumper as I fit mine once I had the front winch bumper on.

The spare won't fit any longer, so I found it best to fashion up a false floor to store the spare, leave space in wheel well for recovery gear that's accessed via hatch and still give some storage space up top..

Recovery points were solved with custom bumper up front and a jate ring in NAS rear towing assembly..

Had a fuel tank guard, made by Safety Devices for LR TreK comp. You'll need this if you plan to seriously off road it as I bashed mine several times. I would suggest custom fabricating one..

And front and rear diff guards, again Safety Devices but no longer available..

Rear bumper was trimmed as lower part will rip apart off road, and rear boxes of exhaust were replaced with straight through pipes to stop the being crushed and the ends tended to get blocked with mud...

Custom side bars fabricated that bolted on to existing holes in chassis. they were designed to protect side curve and also not to lose any ground clearance...

Custom fabrication was done by a friend as a one off.

As for air suspension, as mentioned before the Arnott gen 3 bags are more resilient and you can adjust the height with Autologic etc to higher heights in each mode to allow for tyres. Mansfield 4x4 in Bury will do this for 10-20 pounds.

The electrics are fine and I wouldn't see any more problems over an RR classic. Obviously transmission components are more expensive so if you break a CV it's going to cost more than the classic. That being said more and more P38 RR's are turning up in salvage so it should be easier to source these parts secondhand at a reasonable cost.

Hope this helps

Steve

[SteveG]

Now the green lanes can vary from road chippings to lanes that are 200yds 3hrs, which would challenge even the lockered simex 90!

By the way where are these lanes that take 3hrs to do 200yds??

Thanks

Steve

[LandyManLuke]

Surely if a lane is that bad, driving it will cause more damage? i.e. - you shouldn't be there?

[Young bobtail Rhys]

Surely if a lane is that bad, driving it will cause more damage? i.e. - you shouldn't be there?

That particular lane was quite long and only turned very bad towards the end, the only reason why it took us so long was our diffs were on the floor, so we winched ourselves through which took ages, the rest of it wasn't that bad, just a few muddy holes throwing the car to one side! The lane did not have any signs on it saying that it was closed at the start so we proceded. We always look for the signs because obviously if they are closed we do not drive them. Infact we do look after the lanes with both our driving and keeping the lane tidy, if our landy isn't going to get through an overgrown section without damage to the bodywork, then we have plenty of tools to make sure that it is passable, and other greenlaners can then enjoy the drive

[FridgeFreezer]

One of the Shire members, Moo, off-roads his P38 and it does rather well. He's running standard but has a set of MT's on rims, a winch on the front and that's about it as far as I can tell.

[Young bobtail Rhys]

By the way where are these lanes that take 3hrs to do 200yds??

Thanks

Steve

Hi Steve,

I can't remember fully where abouts that particular lane was. I think it was around the Ely area. If you would like to know exactly, I can find out over the weekend and send you a pm. Also, to add to us being stuck for hours and making incredibly slow progress, heavens decided to open and not only were we now muddy, frustrated and shattered, we became absolutely soaked! Not a recommended greenlane, but if interested in finding where abouts its location is, tell me.

Rhys

[DEANO3528]

Going OT for just a second here: In case you aren't aware, there are seasonal TRO's on almost the entire South Cambs network from Haddenham right down through Oakington and Rampton. Probably due to 'laning' similar to that mentioned.

There was a bit in a Cambs newspaper recently saying that 'offroaders' had cut gates dowen in order to access the lanes out of season. Please remember that the police now have powers to seize and dispose of vehicles reported on closed greenlanes.

Sorry, back to the topic.