Matt B Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 In the good old days before this Nazi bloody government came to power and the 'Elf and Saftey police ran rife, changing the body on a vehicle didn't warrant any sort of inspection. It was widely regarded in the VW world that a LWB dune buggy didn't need an SVA, or whatever they were called back then because it was basicly a job of coachwork, like fitting a tipper back to a transit. Following that premise I am sure, good old Mark made no mention of the SVA in a 4x4 is Born. I now read with horror stories of vehicles being crushed for having the wrong body panels, I appreciate that some modification of the chassis is required but people have been adding bits to chassis for years, ususally the modification needed to be substantial to require that the vehicle was tested. Can anyone give me a qualified opinion of how much of this hype is true and what level of modification requires a test? The latest article in LRO suggests even minor mods need to be OK'd? Ta Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I think you will struggle to find a definative answer on here. It seems even from official sources you don't seem to get the same answer twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I think you will struggle to find a definative answer on here. It seems even from official sources you don't seem to get the same answer twice. I know very little detail, but IIRC it seems that anything after 1990 is difficult to modify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Why not get in touch with DVLA(?) stating your proposed work and getting them to give you an answer in writing. Trying to argue your case once your vehicle has been seized based on information gained from a public forum is unlikely to get it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Why not get in touch with DVLA(?) stating your proposed work and getting themto give you an answer in writing. Trying to argue your case once your vehicle has been seized based on information gained from a public forum is unlikely to get it back. Very true. I always feel that if you are honest from the start you are asking for trouble... Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Most modern vehicles have a monocoque chassis and that means that the body shell (or most of it) is part of the vehicle structure (crumple zones etc). So therefore replacing a panel from a different vehicle may not maintain the structural integrity of you vehicle - either by the work itself, or the shape of the new panel. It can be argued that cutting a chassis down does much the same thing with regards to the safety of it and of course, small children that we all squash on a daily basis No two jobs are ever the same, so the SVA test and rules they have to follow are based on their opinion at the time and will of course vary from one inspector to another. Factory-built vehicles are crash tested and when you alter the vehicle, the inspector has to consider if the vehicle will behave in a similar way. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Most modern vehicles have a monocoque chassis and that means that the body shell (or most of it) is part of the vehicle structure (crumple zones etc). So therefore replacing a panel from a different vehicle may not maintain the structural integrity of you vehicle - either by the work itself, or the shape of the new panel. It can be argued that cutting a chassis down does much the same thing with regards to the safety of it and of course, small children that we all squash on a daily basis No two jobs are ever the same, so the SVA test and rules they have to follow are based on their opinion at the time and will of course vary from one inspector to another. Factory-built vehicles are crash tested and when you alter the vehicle, the inspector has to consider if the vehicle will behave in a similar way.Les. That makes sense, so I guess the best thing to do is have a chat with the guy at the VI then Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exmoor Beast Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I asked, they said any alteration to the chassis requires SVA. God knows what they would do if everyone who had fitted a rear winch or bobtailed a RR booked an SVA, the backlog would take years to sort out. Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 The only sure way is to get it in writing from VOSA/DVLA, which could well mean getting it written on an SVA certificate. Every time I've called the DVLA I've got a different answer to the same question, both on this issue and others. At least if you have a bit of paper it will stand up in court. Others on here have hybrids (Corrode_Finger's 100") that have been done without the SVA and with the blessing of the man from VOSA after a VIC check, but you need to be careful how you go about it - and I think it's likely a different VOSA man on a different day may well have made you SVA it. I asked a copper what he thought of my 109 and he said even if one of his more anal colleagues kicked off about it, it's very unlikely to be crushed. In fact I've never seen or heard one of these vehicle-crushing stories as anything other than very secondhand rumour. They did crush a load of vehicles belonging to people who were avoiding road tax, it's possible a few of the very dodgy "tax exempt" hybrids out there would've fallen into this but then most of those seem to be so shady it's to be expected. In short - the law is an ass with gaps you could drive a highly modified double-decker bus through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 the sva thing seems to apply when you MOD a vehicle's chassis/ bodywork. if you used a donor chassis with id and a donor body with id and you could therefore prove the age of such parts,then the vehicle would be given a new id on an age related plate so 1990 RRC and a 84 110.tell thm what you propose.rrc chassis modified to take the 110' front end and cab.then the mechanics stay the same RRC, and the body stays the same 110. there for there is no doubt about the AGE of the vehicle,they can use the points system to tot up the score and you'd have a 100" chassis with a LR style body on the log book ala mark evans's 100" If you keep them in the loop from the start thn there th problems can be ironed out as you go and not bite you on the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Looking into it I would have to drive the best part of 150 miles to get the bloody thing tested anyway. What about that Land Ranger thing in LRO though? Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeppimp Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 As I understand it the DVLA local office decide if you need an SVA so the vehicle has to be inspected by the DVLA first, then they either send you for SVA or just VIC the vehicle - hence why some on here have not had to go for SVA test. It would seem they are more concerned about wheelbase changes than re-bodying a chassis Referring to the Landranger case that was brought by trading standards not the DVLA and reading the reports it would seem the vehicle was poorly built - leaky tank and panel gaps between the cab and engine compartment letting fumes in amongst other issues. and of course as a business there are going to be more hoops to jump though than an amateur built vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Ahhhhh, now the facts out! This is a big problem with secondhand information, really LRO should have found out the facts and presented them rationally. Thanks for the info. So how do you contact the DVLA about this - just send them a letter? Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeppimp Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 That does seem to be more inclined towards the build quality although they mention the SVA, I think I will contact the DVLA for an IC and take it from there. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Copied from Mudclub.... As its important , credit to the original poster but I've xxx'd his name i had this reply back off the sva technical adviser Good afternoon Mr. xxxx, Thank you for your enquiry which has been passed to me due to its technical nature. This has caused a delay in you receiving a reply, for which I apologise. I can confirm that the "Bobtail conversion" you refer to, does require a SVA test, following a court case brought by Trading Standards Officers last year. This is because of the legal requirement to inform the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) of any modifications to a vehicle. Once you have informed the DVLA of this modification they will ask to inspect the vehicle and from that the vehicle will not be able to retain its original identity and will require a SVA test. Unfortunately, because the vehicle will probably be a right hand drive variant, it will be subject to an Enhanced test and as such may not meet the requirements of the Enhanced regulations. The fact that this modification was carried out some time ago does not have any bearing on this matter. I do hope this information is helpful, but should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to get in touch. Best regards, Mark Mark Vickers Technical Officer Single Vehicle Approval Passenger Cars & Light Goods Vehicles Vehicle & Operator Services Agency Department for Transport. full link here http://www.mud-club.com/forum/index.php/topic,53105.0.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 I have just this second got off the Phone to the "local" (in Exeter) SVA inspector, who I have to say was incredibly helpful. According to him SheepPimp is absolutely correct. I need to contact the local DVLA office in Truro and speak to them about my building a "Range Rover Special". He was saying that it will depend how I present the build and to whom on whether it keeps it's existing chassis number and/or requires and SVA and the DVLA office will decide. He suggested that as this is a common adjustment using standard repair panels that doesn't affect the wheelbase of the vehicle it is likely to get reallocated the description Rang Rover Special and left at that. The issue that most people will encounter is when Mr Plod is immediatley suspicious of a 90 that pops up on their computer as an RRC. Off to the DVLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I have just this second got off the Phone to the "local" (in Exeter) SVA inspector, who I have to say was incredibly helpful. Very true.I always feel that if you are honest from the start you are asking for trouble... Matt Why not get in touch with DVLA(?) stating your proposed work and getting themto give you an answer in writing. Trying to argue your case once your vehicle has been seized based on information gained from a public forum is unlikely to get it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Copied from Mudclub.... As its important , credit to the original poster but I've xxx'd his name i had this reply back off the sva technical adviser Good afternoon Mr. xxxx, Thank you for your enquiry which has been passed to me due to its technical nature. This has caused a delay in you receiving a reply, for which I apologise. I can confirm that the "Bobtail conversion" you refer to, does require a SVA test, following a court case brought by Trading Standards Officers last year. This is because of the legal requirement to inform the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) of any modifications to a vehicle. Once you have informed the DVLA of this modification they will ask to inspect the vehicle and from that the vehicle will not be able to retain its original identity and will require a SVA test. Unfortunately, because the vehicle will probably be a right hand drive variant, it will be subject to an Enhanced test and as such may not meet the requirements of the Enhanced regulations. The fact that this modification was carried out some time ago does not have any bearing on this matter. I do hope this information is helpful, but should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to get in touch. Best regards, Mark Mark Vickers Technical Officer Single Vehicle Approval Passenger Cars & Light Goods Vehicles Vehicle & Operator Services Agency Department for Transport. full link here http://www.mud-club.com/forum/index.php/topic,53105.0.html Why has the Enhanced SVA been brought up????? This was taken from the DVLA's own guidelines: Standard SVA only will be applied to the following: a left hand drive vehicle a personally imported vehicle5 an amateur built vehicle a vehicle manufactured in very low volume a vehicle manufactured using parts of a registered vehicle (for manufacturers only) a rebuilt vehicle (mandatory if first licensing and registration required) a motor caravan (optional) an ambulance (optional) a hearse an armoured vehicle The above categories are defined in Appendix 1. Enhanced SVA will be required in addition to the Standard SVA in all other cases. Looking at the rules for commercial vehicles they don't look too bad at all. Obviously Les Brocks, Dave Lang and the Lovepump have got some more first hand experience but the SVA inspectors seem to be very fair and, as they are more technically minded, seem genuinly interested in the projects. All that seems to be tested for the commercial SVA is Radio interference suppression, Exhaust emissions, Smoke emissions (diesels only), Brakes, Noise and silencers, Fuel input and General vehicle construction. That doesn't look too bad to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Why has the Enhanced SVA been brought up????? This was taken from the DVLA's own guidelines: Like I said - a different answer depending on which shaved call-centre monkey you speak to at the DVLA and how many bananas they had for breakfast. Bluddy useless really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Like I said - a different answer depending on which shaved call-centre monkey you speak to at the DVLA and how many bananas they had for breakfast. Bluddy useless really. At least the chaps at the Southampton test centre must be OK given that Rich turned up with his D-lander for a VIC exactly as it is now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 This subject goes round and round in circles every time the question is asked! I wish people who do not know for certain would shut the **** up and let people who have first hand knowledge speak. A question as important as 'do I need an SVA?' does not need an opinion, it needs a fact! That fact (I have a copy of the SVA manual) is YOU MUST ASK DVLA IF YOUR MODS REQUIRE AN SVA and not an internet forum or a bloke in the pub or a policeman or an MOT examiner or a gynecologist or any other pillar of society. There are no hard and fast rules in the manual. Anybody who tells you if the wheelbase is not altered, only the outriggers have changed, the rear 20% of the chassis is removed or 101 other 'facts' is blowing smoke up your ar$$! It's not worth the risk. When your up in court on a manslaughter charge and your vehicles roadworthiness is brought into question (even if it is roadworthy but should have an SVA) try calling thumbupmyarse off the LR4x4 forum as an expert witness.............................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 When in doubt..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 This subject goes round and round in circles every time the question is asked!I wish people who do not know for certain would shut the **** up and let people who have first hand knowledge speak. A question as important as 'do I need an SVA?' does not need an opinion, it needs a fact! That fact (I have a copy of the SVA manual) is YOU MUST ASK DVLA IF YOUR MODS REQUIRE AN SVA and not an internet forum or a bloke in the pub or a policeman or an MOT examiner or a gynecologist or any other pillar of society. There are no hard and fast rules in the manual. Anybody who tells you if the wheelbase is not altered, only the outriggers have changed, the rear 20% of the chassis is removed or 101 other 'facts' is blowing smoke up your ar$$! It's not worth the risk. When your up in court on a manslaughter charge and your vehicles roadworthiness is brought into question (even if it is roadworthy but should have an SVA) try calling thumbupmyarse off the LR4x4 forum as an expert witness.............................. Try reading the posts properly. That was the local VI officer who advised me, if he doesn't know what he's talking about then who does? He did say that I needed to talk to the local DVLA office. I am very sorry if in your years of wisdom you are bored with noobs like me asking for advice, funnily enough I thought that was the point of forums - to share information in a peer to peer environment. Perhaps we should all stop asking silly questions or starting discussions for fear of putting you out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Bit touchy there? If your VI officer gave you written advice then you have nothing to worry about (but you do sound a little bothered to me?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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