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move to diesel


gav-

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I currently run a 3.5v8 efi in the bowler, whilst is fun and sounds great, but it drinks alot of fuel and plays up around water.

I had intended to switch to megasquirt and edis, but am now thinking of moving to a diesel, peferably a land rover one.

so what are the options, i was thinking a 200tdi over a 300tdi as i have read that they are more tuneable, (is that right??)

how much does a 200 weigh? and were any discos fitted with aircon, (i was thinking about fabricating a charge cooler!)

your thoughts please.

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I would reccomend a 200TDi engine. In my opinion they are better than the 300TDi. Air con was an option on a 300TDi, but I'm not aure about the 200 - although you could at least manufacture a mounting bracket in the same place as the 300 - left side of the head, on top of the timing cover. The engines are incredibly heavy though. I had a problem just picking up the block for my 300TDi engine.

I have a complete 300TDi ebgine here if you would like to come and weight it :lol:

I should imagine that both engines weigh pretty-much the same as each other.

Les.

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Hi

my k reg 200TDI disco is fitted with air con.

But my k reg that i'm putting the engine into my 90 is just a single pully,

so yes thay did fit air con on the 200TDI but is was an extra so make shore you get one with the right pully and that's drilled for the air con pump.

Tim

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I currently run a 3.5v8 efi in the bowler, whilst is fun and sounds great, but it drinks alot of fuel and plays up around water.

I had intended to switch to megasquirt and edis, but am now thinking of moving to a diesel, peferably a land rover one.

so what are the options, i was thinking a 200tdi over a 300tdi as i have read that they are more tuneable, (is that right??)

"Your Thoughts Please ?

buttkick.gif

DFF in place of a Nice V8

crucified.gif

Found that fitting MS and Edis has sorted out water probs, AND the fuel consumption is better cos its tunned better

post-22-1201132250_thumb.jpg

Fan Motors still die tho :lol:

Nige :)

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Be warned that shoving a stock tdi in place of a V8 you will be disappointed performance wise.

I did exaclty this swap last summer - swapped a carbed 3.5 for a 200tdi. With a bit of fiddling with the boost and fuelling you can improve the performance so its not that far behind the V8. However the one place I do notice the difference is on steep climbs off road from a standing start. Its not too bad though.

The major benefits are, it doesnt get hot, it doesnt mind water, and I use a fraction of the fuel that the old V8 did!

The fuel consumption is by the best benefit!

Jon

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Ian - how much force do you need to do that then ??????

- i suppose it depends on the size of the pig, stick and the hole?

James,

Oh God, Please stop fer gawds sake, :ph34r:

You know what Ians Like, we will have a friggin detailed draftmans / Cad Cam diagram with full stress analysis and all the factors calculated to 3 decimal points if you carry on like this....,

Please.....think of the forum

Nige :unsure:

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i know it all sounds stupid, but its really the ideal option, fuel being as expensive as it is these days, its very costly to run it let alone race it, I realise that it sounds like why have a bowler and moan about how much it costs, but its common sense, run on veg oil, turn up the fuel and lower the air temp, will all help.

I am going to keep a couple of v8s anyhow just incase i change my mind

i read white90s report on tweaking the 200tdi, does anyhow have the photos to go with it still? and i still dont know how much one weighs? i need to know as its going to alter my weight distrubiton and i may need to get my shoxs revalved.

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i need to know as its going to alter my weight distrubiton and i may need to get my shoxs revalved.

You won't be going fast enough to need to worry about things like that any more :lol:

Seriously - I know the Range Rover and Discovery are probably both rather lardy compared to a Bowler, but with a fairly elderly 3.5 V8 (and definitely with the 3.9 before that) the Range Rover was quicker off the line than most of the local chav racers. With the 300Tdi you can forget about the traffic light grandprix - in stock tune the only thing you'll be racing will be milk floats. Just how much you can improve on it I don't know, but if I was faced with the choice you've got I'd go racing less often and still be in the running when I did.

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As a mate with a 2.8TGV said: "Now I've got almost the power and almost the MPG of a V8 I may as well fit one and at least have the sound to go with it" :lol:

I suspect the result would be similar by the time you've tweaked the nuts off a TDi. It'll still be heavy and it'll still have a turbo to spin up.

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Random thought, what about an alternative, as its a racer etc, what about an MPI lump......... bear with me, what i actually mean is the Rover Twink Turbo as found in 820 Vittesses etc.

Its 200bhp, with gobs of torque, at similar levels to the V8 in the rev range, it'll fit cos its the MPI as found in the disco etc, and being 4cyl, if driven sensibly( its a racer i know) it'll do more mpg?

Its also new enough that the Magasquirt edis etc should fit no problem? I would expect it to be lighter than a 200tdi also?

If its a rubbish idea, i will go back under my stone!

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A 200is marginally better

Weight is near on the same

Parts are interchangeable (eg heads, cams)

Disco 200 has more grunt

Cheap insurance

My old 200Tdi RRC was topping 150bhp and 280ft/lb with a mild tune and 'cooler, but unlike HFH or BBC with thier petrol drinking ozone destroying melodious delights, max torque was at a snadge over 2krpm, with almost 90 percent max torque at 1900... This makes for one fast vehicle at low and mid range. As the torque trps off fast at over 3.5krpm top end is lower because there simply isn't the cubes. My RRC was over 2.2tonnes and would hustle along fairly briskly, a Tomcat would fly once you had revised your driving style. Diesels make better competition engines, simple fact, more grunt, less fule consumption, less rev...

To be honest I would go for a 300tdi as they are cheap and more common than a 200tdi. Re-seat the head a'la gasket and straight edge check, new seal blah blah, new cam belt and tensioners, pop in some new core plugs and injectors and have fun....

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Diesel no good for racing? Here:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59880

And here:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64601

A diesel is the best thing I have experienced in an off road vehicle, the control you have through the entire rev range is better than any petrol engine.

Ready to face the petrol brigade head on....

Daan

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Random thought, what about an alternative, as its a racer etc, what about an MPI lump......... bear with me, what i actually mean is the Rover Twink Turbo as found in 820 Vittesses etc.

I've often thought one of these engines would be good in a landrover. Marco Cosic fitted one into his series s few years back. I had a vitesse as a daily driver for many years.

There is no need for megasquirt or edis on these engines. They run coil packs as standard from 94 onwards anyway, and the MEMS ecu is actually mapped from the factory for up to 1bar of boost, (standard is 0.46 on early cars - later ones is lower IIRC). They come with knock sensors from the factory etc, so I can see no benefit in fitting megasquit.

Remove the cat, tweek the boost up to 1 bar, increase the fuel pressure by crimping the pressure reg in a vice and 250Bhp is easily, reliably available.

However the pistons in the later models are made of chocolate, so you ideally want the Mahle forged pistons from a pre-94 model.

If you want more boost than this, then its expensive aftermarket forged piston time and start playing with water injection and aftermarket injection systems. I'm told these can be got up around 400bhp.

However the one thing with these, even with the standard cars, is there is stuff all power below about 2500rpm. In a racer, where you're keeping the revs up this would probably be fine, but it'd be no good for low speed work.

HTH

Jon

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Jon

We played around with this is a Disco based racer a few years ago. Mpi box, 1.66 T box, lightened Disco, 205/80x16 Diamonds. Lump was from a 220Turbo with and Emerald map, hoofin gert Alisport 'cooler and water injection. 320bhp on the flywheel. Problem was it was just to heavy for such small cubes. It's all in a QT now somewhere in France.

Edited to spell Jon's name correctly

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My old 200Tdi RRC was topping 150bhp and 280ft/lb with a mild tune and 'cooler

What fuel consumption did you get from it? Most people who've seriously tweaked Tdis seem to report fuel consumption increasing to the point where, as FF said, you might as well just have stuck a V8 in in the first place. I'm happy to be corrected - I've no personal experience of tweaked Tdi's.

I'm sure a bowler with a modern race diesel in it would be rather tasty - and expensive. LR Tdis aren't in quite the same league, though, are they...?

A diesel is the best thing I have experienced in an off road vehicle, the control you have through the entire rev range is better than any petrol engine.

I'm not arguing with diesel generically - I've driven quite a few really nice diesels. None of them were Tdi land rovers...

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To be honset Geoff it depends on the right foot. Driven normally you get a damn site less gear changes and superb mid range acceleration and better fuel economy. Use the loud pedal and the guage goes down a damn site faster than you would like. It takes abit of self discipline - like driving a GTO in the rain

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