Toyota

[rick]

Mog, I know you said you want a LC over a Patrol, but I'd take a Patrol over an LC any day.

Much beefier driveline, and if you can get one with the old school TD42T engine, (don't think they'v been sold in Europe for a few years, only just discontinued here) they are an absolutely bulletproof powerplant.

Spares here are available anywhere, including that '92 fuel filter you talked about. Actually, I have one on the shelf, too

TLC's early 1HZ engines were prone to doing cranks and the turbo version did turbo's, but should be well and truly sorted by now.

There were a spate of front diff and gearbox problems a couple of years ago too, but again should be sorted by now.

Same thing with the Patrol, they were doing 5th in the '00-01 GU's (Y61) which turned out to be an incorrectly machined shaft by an outside supplier. Nissan replaced gearboxes, even when out of warranty.

BTW, I'd grab a TLC 79 series Troop Carrier over an 80 Series SW for expedition stuff, although the Troopy does use a cart spring rear end.

Much more room/greater payload.

As for TLC and Nissan dominating in rural/remote areas of Australia, a lot of it comes down to lack of dealer support. If anyone's been through Alice Springs, you will be surprised to see how many Land Rover products are running around. This is because of the excellent back up by the local dealer.

This was something I noticed the first time I went to the Alice, and I didn't even own, nor had I considered one then.

Where I live it's all TLC 78/79 Series utes, Hi Luxes and 80/100/105's, with about half their number Patrol utes and wagons and Navarra utes. The Toyota dealer is 30km away, the Nissan one 60km, and the nearest Land Rover dealer is now 200km away, thanks to Land Rover Australia 'consolidating' and canning the entire country dealer network !

[q-rover]

Reads90 - "I think you lot are over thinking what you need" We might not all the outback on our doorsteps, but there are plenty of adventures to be had in the Northern hemisphere. Shires members have recently found themselves in Norway, Alaska and Russia. I don't want a vehicle that will limit where I can go.

And nobody even stopped to say hello, or for a cup of tea!

[Jen]

Yeah, don't forget Ali, we may live in Europe but it doesn't mean we *stay* in Europe Good point about the Shires trips Andy, aren't we a bunch of jet-setters.... B) We found when kitting the truck out it was easier to plan for worst case, that way you won't have to go 'upgrading' everything when you decide the Alps was fun but now you want to drive to Alaska (5 days, gravel roads), Russia (what roads?) or Norway (big heater!).

And the roof mounted lights were very useful, not only for avoiding black bears giving a good overview of the road/surrounding undergrowth at night, but great when you're trying to set up camp in the evening

[reads90]

Yeah, don't forget Ali, we may live in Europe but it doesn't mean we *stay* in Europe Good point about the Shires trips Andy, aren't we a bunch of jet-setters.... B) We found when kitting the truck out it was easier to plan for worst case, that way you won't have to go 'upgrading' everything when you decide the Alps was fun but now you want to drive to Alaska (5 days, gravel roads), Russia (what roads?) or Norway (big heater!).

And the roof mounted lights were very useful, not only for avoiding black bears giving a good overview of the road/surrounding undergrowth at night, but great when you're trying to set up camp in the evening

Yeah good point Jen and add me to the shires list of traveled trucks , i am pretty sure i am still a member

Diferant case call for differant trucks. Where we are you don't drive at night. Roads too dangerous but the main reason is that is when you are likly to hit Kangeroos. So we did not really use our Lights as were settle down for camp beofre dark anyway. Nothing better than sitting down with a beer at camp, while watching the sunset over the outback

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Is that how big Australia is relative to Europe? I always thought it was much bigger! We had some friends from Moscow drove to Barcelona in 2 days solid (bit like Cairns to Perth!). In a 1980 Lada saloon. In the middle of winter!

Alaska ain't that bad. I spent a month driving around there. There are in fact very few roads and most are tarmac now. Even the bad ones are graded gravel and better than our forestry tracks. We managed in a Subaru without ever once thinking it was OTT.

[FridgeFreezer]

And nobody even stopped to say hello, or for a cup of tea!

Put the kettle on, Mike's already planning the return trip hopefully I'll be able to join in this time too.

[Jen]

Alaska ain't that bad. I spent a month driving around there. There are in fact very few roads and most are tarmac now. Even the bad ones are graded gravel and better than our forestry tracks. We managed in a Subaru without ever once thinking it was OTT.

Mm... well we did quite a few graded gravel, quite a few ungraded gravel and quite a few mud! (i.e. no gravel/tarmac!) But our whole idea was 'how do we get to Alaska using as few tarmaced roads as possible' B) Was worth it for the immense amount of Wildlife. Having been a Subaru owner for many years I can confidently say ours (or a Forester) wouldn't have coped with a few of the roads we travelled, even some of the large trucks out there were struggling. I think everyone can agree, you pick a truck for what you want to do, one persons trip to Russia/Alaska/Australia will be very different to anothers.

Yeah - Ali, aren't you meant to be coming over soon? You need to get to another Shires event and being on the other side of the world is no excuse!

[reads90]

Yeah - Ali, aren't you meant to be coming over soon? You need to get to another Shires event and being on the other side of the world is no excuse!

Yeah will be over for a couple of weeks end of April begining of May

[Corrode Finger]

Would the most important consideration in this decision, be the oportunity to buy the best Landcruiser, Patrol, or Land Rover 110?

From what people are saying it appears that having a very good base vehicle that has been looked after etc is more important than one that can be modded to the max? Reliability and durability seems to be the main long term requirement, or am i missing something?

As Moglite says he will mainly concentrate on Europe, would a Merc G Wagen LWB be any use?

[reads90]

As Moglite says he will mainly concentrate on Europe, would a Merc G Wagen LWB be any use?

ooohhhh now your talking . Now there a nice truck to travel with

If you not going Land Rover then better than a rice burner

[q-rover]

Put the kettle on, Mike's already planning the return trip hopefully I'll be able to join in this time too.

Earl grey or Darjeeling?

[tacr2man]

I agree with Ali, generally you dont travel at night in OZ, especially when you get right out in the bush, Roos arnt too bad to hit with a decent bar on a 110 or LC/Patrol . but a decent size cow even makes the roadtrains, shudder

The roof light thing has become quite a fashion, to be any use at night driving you need them set quite well back if you drive a bonneted vehicle, as the back glare makes them more of a hindrance than a help.

If you are going to drive at night then good big spotlights at normal level are perfectly adequate. if the terrain is that bad that you need high level lights to see how deep the holes are then you should not be driving.

Sat phone is the way to go, you can always get the phone number of the police etc in the last town you were in. or the homesteads on route for emergency .

A few hours waiting in 40+C without much water, can seem an awfull lot longer.

It seems a long time when you are the one doing the SAR as well . JMHO

[Jen]

The roof light thing has become quite a fashion, to be any use at night driving you need them set quite well back if you drive a bonneted vehicle, as the back glare makes them more of a hindrance than a help.

...or a wheel on the bonnet.

If you are going to drive at night then good big spotlights at normal level are perfectly adequate. if the terrain is that bad that you need high level lights to see how deep the holes are then you should not be driving.

But if you need to see into the surrounding undergrowth or want an graeter overall view they're useful. I admit we didn't use them alot, but when we did they were fantastic. A mixture of fogs and spots on the top. Ideally, you don't want to be travelling at night, but there are times when the days events can mean you're travelling later than ideal. You're lucky if you have an entire trip without unexpected events even with all the planning in the world.

Again, this seems to be a personal preference thing, but then if we all drove exactly the same vehicles life would be boring

[Cal]

A mate of mine is just on to his 2nd cruiser (80 series). First he had an import and now has a UK model. so now has axle lockers and leather seats, but no swing away wheel carrier.

He had the first one for just over a year, only problem being the fuel pump ate itself - something I have heard of on a couple of other 80s over here.

My mate says as a daily driver he would never go back to a Defender, mainly for comfort reasons. But he also does all his own maintenance and says it's a hell of a lot easier on the cruiser - hardly any rust underneath and all bolts come undone when needed. Took him about an hour to do oil and filter change (can't remember if this included cambelt).

Things to look out for - the big end bearings as mentioned - most people on the owners club say get them done just in case, but a few of the guys have changed them and found nowt wrong with the originals - some however were not in a good way.

Check for rust around the upper tailgate - normally not much. Also check for rust around the windsreen as the glass can rub when the body flexes off road.

The diesel is a cracking engine - loads of torque. My mate gets around 25mpg but has had up to 40mpg before if you accelerate gently on a good run - but that was still driving 60-70mph as well, just taking a bit of time to get there (but not driving like a Granny).

Make sure if you get a UK model that the lockers actually work as a lot of them have never been off road - the mech gums up.

Also check all the leccy windows work - they often get v slow in wet weather - the channel can be lubed to help them along.

Auto gearbox os nicer than manual on 80 series...

Personally, I agree with the comments about the 110 looking better and having more character. I nearly bought my mates old cruiser but just didn't get a buzz from driving it - thought I would, but didn't. Mind you, his new one is nicer...

Check out the owners club forum for more detail.

Hope that helps

[Eightpot]

Eightpot, most people wouldn't want to carry fuel inside the vehicle and a roof rack is fairly essential as you'll want a roof tent on an expedition vehicle. Also, if you've ever driven cross country at night then you'll appreciate high level lights. A cage is always a sensible idea expecially in a heavy vehicle. You'd also be stupid to head anywhere and not armour the bottom of your vehicle - it doesn't weight much and could well save your vehicle. I don't think all the trialers, racers and challenge boys are idiots who just want to bolt stuff to their cars Fair enough you may not want to spend the sort of prices Frogs Island would charge to build an expedition car but I know them very well and the quality of they're vehicles is second to none. As for the differance in price, I'd say the defender's probably more expensive by the time you've specced up the drivetrain, added A/C, added some more comfy seats, dealt with any rot (300tdi's are getting old) and so on.

Yep, high level lights if you're going to drive cross country at night, but not sure driving cross country at night is that wise in the first place, if we're talking about hamada and pistes here rather than roads?

I don't have any underbody protection other than a front diff guard, and I don't have a roof rack, but I do have a roof tent .

On my last trip I carried 120litres of diesel in the back to get me across the Ubari sand sea, just covered the load area with plywood (bolted down) leaving a void between the arches for jerrycans. I only have 120l in the back for a short time, as once the main tank is empty, I'm using the fuel, emptying the cans and getting back to standard weight without a constant penalty - centre of gravity is kept low and the cans can't move if I hit a hidden drop or dune.

Aside from terra firma shocks (they were going cheap) the rest is a standard ex mod 90 soft top (ooh apart from the TDi and an ickle fridge)

Keep it real - shed the steel. Nuff respec reads90 B)

[will_warne]

Rather you than me! HD steering arms, a diff gaurd on the back and a fuel tank gaurd weight very little. You pay your money you take your choice I guess.....

[MogLite]

Some great advice - especially Cal with the real world ownership perspective - that helps

Disco 3. Its close, base price is a bit of a scare, but the cost of getting a rear wheel carrier and a winch bumper and rack etc would push the costs well over £20K, which is probably a step too far. I guess they are pretty complicated too. Our neighbours have one, they spend ages backing it up against the garage door because its so damn ugly.

G-wagen. Again excellent vehicles, but they don't float my boat in LWB form alas. SWB soft top for summer - hell yes.

Roof-lights and driving around Australia at night - who gives a damn ? This thread was for LandCruiser VS Defender for Europe. When the sun goes down its time for drinking, not driving

Reads90 - I was about to call bullsh1t over that map of Aus overlayed over Europe. I like others thought it was bigger, but the map is fair, I checked a few distances. So what is all the fuss about

I sat down and did some pricing of the project. Whilst the base LandCruiser and the mods I want, are pretty much what I expected. When I got to the roof, the rack, tent and awning I want will cost £2500 and weigh over 120kgs. Thats mad from a security point of view, let alone the comprimise in handling and MPG it puts on the vehicle. Maybe its time to stay with a conventional tent !!!

[q-rover]

For space and comfort vs. weight you can't beat a Lavvo.

You can even get wood burning stoves for them.

[jules]

Yeah, don't forget Ali, we may live in Europe but it doesn't mean we *stay* in Europe Good point about the Shires trips Andy, aren't we a bunch of jet-setters.... B) We found when kitting the truck out it was easier to plan for worst case, that way you won't have to go 'upgrading' everything when you decide the Alps was fun but now you want to drive to Alaska (5 days, gravel roads), Russia (what roads?) or Norway (big heater!).

And the roof mounted lights were very useful, not only for avoiding black bears giving a good overview of the road/surrounding undergrowth at night, but great when you're trying to set up camp in the evening

I didn't use the roof-lights much in the freelander I must admit as the bumper lights were better quality but each to there own. even on the highest mountain roads in the 20ft snow driff's I didn't find them much use in comparison. (the freelander did have its light too far forward and they light up the bonnet screwing up you night vision anyway)

Thanks for mentioning the shire's first long trip when three members took three cars to Bosnia, Croatia etc. fully loaded with Aid and dropped it off with SFOR back in 2001 on a 3500 mile round trip.

John "pot this is kettle", I didn't know you had been off roading in europe and beyond

[MogLite]

For space and comfort vs. weight you can't beat a Lavvo.

You can even get wood burning stoves for them.

Oh - I really like that. Space to eat/sleep/live/etc. Lightweight, they claim to be 10-15mins to put up too, as opposed to the good hour it takes to put up hour current family tent.

I need to see one of those in the flesh

[FridgeFreezer]

Maybe its time to stay with a conventional tent !!!

Or perhaps a stock-ish truck and an expedition trailer, either bought or made?

My plan is to have a trailer for all the gear and use the truck for sleeping in - perhaps not practical if you've got kids to accommodate too, but I reckon the theory is sound. Keep the truck relatively free from extra clutter and all the stuff that goes with it, and offload all the gear into a self-contained unit that can bimble along behind. You can even unload stuff that would be in the truck as standard, such as the spare wheel(s) and jerry cans. Then the trailer's taking the strain rather than your truck being sat on its bump-stops. Unless the going gets really sticky you won't notice the trailer, and if you're in that deep you can unhook it and winch it through after you.

Mr Watts seems to be doing rather well at building a trailer at the moment, I believe he has a thread running in the TnF forum?

[tacr2man]

In view of what you were saying in your first post as to destination and travelling with two children I think that you are probably looking at the wrong transport altogether,

Leaving the posing thing aside why not look at a modern motorcaravan, far more user friendly, especially from tha accomodation point of view in winter, good ergonomics, etc

[q-rover]

Oh - I really like that. Space to eat/sleep/live/etc. Lightweight, they claim to be 10-15mins to put up too, as opposed to the good hour it takes to put up hour current family tent.

I need to see one of those in the flesh

Havn't got many pictures of ours, but I'll see what I can dig out over the weekend.

[Ivan]

Actually saw one of those when we went on a trip to the Pyranees. They are very good but a tad awkward to put up. I am sure with some practice you could put it up very easily. I must admit I do prefer a ground tent when we are travelling. It means you can set up camp and still drive the vehicle somewhere. With a roof tent you either have to take it down or make sure you are setttled for the night before you set up camp. I had roof lights on the Disco and in all the trips I have done I have only ever used them to shed some light when setting up camp. During my 3 years in Oz I never used them at all and I avoided driving at night. All I had on the Disco in the way of protection was a steering guard, front diff guard and a Cargo Barrier (bit like a dog guard but much stronger). Nearly forgot I also have a winch bumper fitted but only really needed the winch in Russia and Croatia. In Oz, Morroco and Libya we mainly used snatch straps for recovery.

HTH

Ivan

[Orgasmic Farmer]

I used to have a similar pyramid tent from Fjall Raven. It was a bit more simple in design and could be put up in about 2 minutes (peg 4 corners and insert centre pole...then guy according to conditions) I slept out in force 10 winds on the mountains with no ill effects.