kitekrazy Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Hi Folks, I am hoping someone here can help me, Ive now obtained a LWB landie in bits for my son and I to rebuild, but there is a part missing! On the brakes, on the pipes off the master cylinder, there is a five way junction where the two pipes from the master (in and out, I believe) couple with the two front brake pipes and the pipe to the rear brakes. I understand that there is a valve system within this block that is for major leaks. Can anyone tell me the correct name and part number for this piece, or does anyone have one they can sell me??? I would appreciate your support in this. What ever this is its not available from Paddocks! Also is there a bracket to hold this? I cant tell ! Regards, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 There's nothing that 5-pipes go to - 4, yes (brake failure valve). If you have two pipes coming out of the master cylinder, then you have servo - assist brakes. Front brake pipe from the front of the master cylinder goes to a 'T' piece (3 pipe connection), the other two pipes from there go to each of your front brakes. The second pipe - from the rear of the master cylinder goes to the rear brakes. Without the brake failure valve the pipe goes along the chassis on the drivers side, then connects to a brake hose to the top of the rear axle and into another 'T' piece. The two other connections from there go to each of the rear wheels. The brake failure valve has a pressure switch in it which warns you of loss of pressure. The system will work fine without the valve - the brake master cylinder has two compartments in, so loss of braking at the front doesn't affect the rear and vise-versa. Brake effort will be greater, but the brakes will still work on the unaffected end of the truck. If you still want to fit the failure valve, then the part number for it is NRC4880 - the switch that goes into it is part number AAU1700, and the mounting plate is part number NRC4286 or NRC7409 (depending on the year of your truck). I doubt you'll be able to get a new valve - personally I wouldn't bother with it. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 2nd what Les says except to add that some PDWAs (Pressure Differential Warning Apparatus) do have 5 pipes, two in and three out, 2 of the outs are connected together. This type is usually found on Range Rovers. Some landies indicated a leaking system when the pedal travel becomes excessive with a switch situated near the brakelight switch, under the bonnet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted February 3, 2008 Author Share Posted February 3, 2008 Hi Les, Yes, it is servo assist brakes, hence the five way. Dont know about switch as there is no wires dangling there!!! I dont know yet whats best as the system is set up for one, but will consider your suggestion to throw t-pieces in there to cover all pipes. rtbarton mentions PDWAs, I see a couple listed as part no. 594747 and 599443, are these acceptable? Appreciate your comments here, your help is much needed thanks, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Just get rid of it. They're bloomin expensive and not really necessary anyway. Plumb the rear output straight to the rear flexi hose, and add a T piece and tee the two front pipes into and then feed directly from the master cylinder. Mines been like this for years. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 Many thanks for all the comments, I've been finally able to obtain the pdwa secondhand for £10! good deal as I see its about £100 at Craddocks for a new one.... Just looking to check, but did I see somewhere about what version brake fluid I should use - think I saw a comment saying that Dot 3 is OK as it's mineral oil, but don't use Dot 4 as it's synthetic oil? Appreciate it if someone can confirm. Regards, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted March 9, 2008 Author Share Posted March 9, 2008 Found it! Dot 3 and Dot 4 is OK, dont use Dot 5 as its Sylly con!!! Its here on the forum, I just had to keep looking..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 9, 2008 Share Posted March 9, 2008 DOT 3 or 4 is what you need. DOT 5 doesn't mix with the lower numbers and may damage the seals if you use it. Only the girly types that lounge around in the Disco/Rangy forum use this posh type of fluid - it goes along with the soft carpets, comfyfluffybunny seats, and softonyerbum suspension Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twizzle Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Just get rid of it. They're bloomin expensive and not really necessary anyway.Plumb the rear output straight to the rear flexi hose, and add a T piece and tee the two front pipes into and then feed directly from the master cylinder. Mines been like this for years. Jon Or just fit a 40-60 master cylinder off a 110 TWIZZLE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I realise you've bought it now but really - I'd ditch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Or just fit a 40-60 master cylinder off a 110 TWIZZLE That may not be suitable for a Series as they didn't use brake balancers AFAIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 That may not be suitable for a Series as they didn't use brake balancers AFAIK It's what I run on the 109 and it works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 the 60/40 (actually 62/38) is off a 90, AFAIK 110's were 50/50. i run a 60/40 on my series with no problems, miss out the shuttle valve and you still need to T piece the front brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I have been having brake problems on my S 2ish just as the mot looms and have read over these posts. It has 11 inch fronts, dual circuit with a servo. Have I got it right in that the 5 way valve can be done away with. And keep the servo, the front and rear brake pipes can be piped straight from the master cylinder , front hole on the m/c into a Tee for the front brakes and back hole for the rear to the axle and Tee d for each side of the rear. My m/c is plumbed as follows 2 outlets front 1 goes to the back of the 5 way and rear goes to the front. My 5 way vavle is plumbed as follows, top 2 outlets as above the bottom 2 front goes to passenger side front brake and the rear goes to the rear brakes. The middle outlet goes to the drivers side front. This does not seem right to me having read the posts and looked at the Haynes. I did replace some b/pipes and removed shoes and cleaned all of the back plates up, on the front there is only one way for the shoes to go back on. The only bits I could not fix were the steady posts. Are these essential I hope this reads ok. Any help and advise would be most welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 The PDWA comes in two types, 4 and 5 way. An inlet port has its outlet diametrical opposite. On the 5 way the extra port is on the end cap and is connected internally to the two ports nearest to it. Inlets and outlets are interchangeable. The rear brakes should be connected to one of the outlets, the split left to right is at the rear axle. Front brakes could either be teed on the chassis (4 port PDWA) or each side connected to one of the 2 oultets on the 5 way PDWA. I'm not sure if the front of the M/c goes to the front or rear brakes, I've seen both. Look here These diagrams show the 4-port device, the fifth port just screws into one of the ends, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Thanks, I have had a look but dont know what I am looking at. In the Haynes it looks like the front goes to the front and the rear goes to the rear from m/c to failure valve. Can failure valve be done away with? PDWA whats that? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Thanks, I have had a look but dont know what I am looking at. In the Haynes it looks like the front goes to the front and the rear goes to the rear from m/c to failure valve. Can failure valve be done away with? PDWA whats that?Thanks Yes it can PDWA = Pressure Differential Warning Apparatus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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