Ben Jordan Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 (edited) I have a 1990 Range rover classic SE that I use for Green laning/off roading around the country. It is also used as a run around when the whether gets bad and a general work horse for the house. I like the off road ability with the comfort of eating up lots of miles getting to that lane. I plan to have a go at some low key winch comps in the future. The spec off the top of my head so far in no order is: 3.9 V8 with LPG Borg Warner centre diff 235/85/16 MT's on Wolf wheels Pro-comp +2" spring lift Pro-comp es9000 +2" shocks Extended bump stops Dislocation cones on rear Heavy duty spring retaining plates on rear +3" braided front brake hoses Caster corrected front radius arms Cranked rear radius arms ARB front winch bumper (no winch) What do you think the next modification to the Rangie should be? Edited November 24, 2005 by Ben Jordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 Oh it's got the auto box and i didn't put the Borg warner diff in. I mention it because i have thought about changing it to a LT230 transfer box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I like the off road ability with the comfort of eating up lots of mines getting to that lane. I'd go for some really powerful lights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Seriously, snorkel? Waterproof the ignition (maybe EDIS?). I'm not being very original, though, just reeling off my current projects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Going on the fact that you're going to do a few low key winch events.... A winch would be a distinct advantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 A winch is very high on the list but taking part in a winch challenge is not a priority. The problem is what to get i started off wanting a 8274 but the price and lack of use made me opt for a 9.5 XP. Then when i had a think i wanted a value winch so i could buy other bits for the Rangie and wanted a Superwich EP9. Im confused on the winch front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 I'd go for some really powerful lights... Okay ive changed it to miles. Oh ive got some big Hella's on the bumper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 Seriously, snorkel? Waterproof the ignition (maybe EDIS?). I'm not being very original, though, just reeling off my current projects Tell me more about EDIS. Im assuming it's very similar to Megasquirt? Or am i well off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Decent HD Front & Rear recovery points, along with decent recovery gear .... Strops, Rated Several Shackles, HiLift, Rope & KERR, Fire Extingusher 1st aid kit etc More work and cost than you think, more use than you'll ever realise Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted November 24, 2005 Author Share Posted November 24, 2005 Decent HD Front & Rear recovery points, along with decent recovery gear ....Strops, Rated Several Shackles, HiLift, Rope & KERR, Fire Extingusher 1st aid kit etc More work and cost than you think, more use than you'll ever realise Nige I have the recovery point on the winch bumper at the front and the tow bar at the rear. I have a large selection of tree strops, strops and shackles. I have a Hi-lift with the lift mate? attachment. a Long chain & KERR, A first aid kit, Saw's, crow bar and a small axe I am not a total beginner I have been off roading for many years in and out of work. I do not have a fire extinguisher that’s something im working on any suggestions on one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Tell me more about EDIS. Im assuming it's very similar to Megasquirt? Or am i well off? Close - it's not Megasquirt but it can be used with it. Briefly: EDIS is Fords Electronic Distributorless Ignition System, as used on most of their cars through the nineties. Later ones had the controller built into the engine management system but the earlier ones were almost self contained, with a controller and coil pack(s) and a crank position sensor triggered by a toothed wheel. The system has an output (called PIP) which sends a timing signal to the engine management system and an input (SAW) which takes a signal which alters the ignition timing. With no input on SAW the system runs in a default 'limp home' mode at 10deg advance. Where Megasquirt comes in to this is that some of the Megasquirt guys have written code to handle the PIP and SAW signals, so if you fit EDIS to a car which didn't originally have it you can use Megasquirt to manage the ignition timing (it can do fueling at the same time, but you don't have to do this if you don't want to). There are three big advantages to this system over the standard ignition: Stronger spark - you can get this with an upgraded dizzy ignition, of course Waterproof - EDIS is well proven in the wet. No more smirking diesel drivers... Map your ignition yourself - more accurate than a dizzy, and no 'black box' electronics Obviously, if you implement fuelling you get full control over that as well and can set it up just right for your engine, tune for power or economy and so on. Caveat - I haven't fitted mine yet, although I've got all the bits and it's the first thing I'm doing once I've got a working engine again, so as far as personal experience goes I'm still talking theory. However, Megasquirt is already in successful use in plenty of land rovers (a few people on here run it) and at least one person has fitted Megasquirt and EDIS and had good results, including running quite happily under water. Oh, it's relatively cheap as well - the whole lot costs less than a new dizzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Winch - as already mentioned. i would always go for one you feel you would be confident with. for me that was a XD9000i up front (now an 8274) and a Husky on the rear. i dont think money can really be skimped on here. Snorkel - not essential but a nice to have extended breathers. removable rear recovery point such as Southdown to tow bar doesnt drag. Underbody protection -2" shock mounts for more articulation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 I have the recovery point on the winch bumper at the front and the tow bar at the rear. I'd get rid of the towbar pdq unless you want to enter ploughing competitions Rgds Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted November 25, 2005 Author Share Posted November 25, 2005 Close - it's not Megasquirt but it can be used with it. Briefly:EDIS is Fords Electronic Distributorless Ignition System, as used on most of their cars through the nineties. Later ones had the controller built into the engine management system but the earlier ones were almost self contained, with a controller and coil pack(s) and a crank position sensor triggered by a toothed wheel. The system has an output (called PIP) which sends a timing signal to the engine management system and an input (SAW) which takes a signal which alters the ignition timing. With no input on SAW the system runs in a default 'limp home' mode at 10deg advance. Where Megasquirt comes in to this is that some of the Megasquirt guys have written code to handle the PIP and SAW signals, so if you fit EDIS to a car which didn't originally have it you can use Megasquirt to manage the ignition timing (it can do fueling at the same time, but you don't have to do this if you don't want to). There are three big advantages to this system over the standard ignition: Stronger spark - you can get this with an upgraded dizzy ignition, of course Waterproof - EDIS is well proven in the wet. No more smirking diesel drivers... Map your ignition yourself - more accurate than a dizzy, and no 'black box' electronics Obviously, if you implement fuelling you get full control over that as well and can set it up just right for your engine, tune for power or economy and so on. Caveat - I haven't fitted mine yet, although I've got all the bits and it's the first thing I'm doing once I've got a working engine again, so as far as personal experience goes I'm still talking theory. However, Megasquirt is already in successful use in plenty of land rovers (a few people on here run it) and at least one person has fitted Megasquirt and EDIS and had good results, including running quite happily under water. Oh, it's relatively cheap as well - the whole lot costs less than a new dizzy I can't think of a V8 that Ford (UK) made in the nineties. So do you use a 4 cyl set up with 4 coils running 2 pots each? Do megasquirt make something that works instead of this? I know that Rover made some c##p but so did Ford. I have been looking for a system to remove the distributor for a while. What parts do you need to do this? Have many other people carried out this conversion? How hard is it to fit? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted November 25, 2005 Author Share Posted November 25, 2005 So far then a Southdown removable tow bar would be a good idea and a winch. If i ask what winch to go for im sure everybody is going to tell me a 8274!!!! What batteries does everybody use? And which charging system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 A couple of things I would do Ben, is fit Dan Bars or Sumos & relocate your steering damper. Rgds Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted November 25, 2005 Author Share Posted November 25, 2005 A couple of things I would do Ben, is fit Dan Bars or Sumos & relocate your steering damper.Rgds Brett That is something i have thought about. Its it better to get the Defender steering arm and weld a plate to the chassis rail or buy one of the relocating kits which all seem to bolt onto the actual steering arm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Sell the ARB bumper and get one that doesn't arrive ten minutes before the rest of the car - Southdown make luverly ones. You'll also have change to put towards the winch. They also do one for an 8274, but if you have an oil cooler and Aircon you'll struggle to fit it without a substantial front overhang. (A bit like the one you've got with the ARB bumper!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 A winch is very high on the list but taking part in a winch challenge is not a priority. The problem is what to get i started off wanting a 8274 but the price and lack of use made me opt for a 9.5 XP. Then when i had a think i wanted a value winch so i could buy other bits for the Rangie and wanted a Superwich EP9. Im confused on the winch front. Ring up PG winches and buy a DV9000 (or Gigglepin 4x4) and lob on an Albright solenoid, paint it black.silver/blue and you will have an EP9 for less money. Having said that the EP9 is the dog's hairey bollox for all general porpoise off road wenching - it's just cheaper (slightly) to go DV and the proprietors of either Gigglepin or PG Winches are both decent chaps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Nothing wrong with ARB bumpers. If you really don't like the approch angle, shift it back a bit (not that hard). However, on that subject, you will need to do something about recovery points; the factory ones are made of chocolate and just bend. Not a problem for a couple of pulls but after than the metal will become stressed and the points will eventually shear off. I've tried some other options but nothing's yet been satisfactory so I'm going to have annother crack at them over Christmas. This time they should be strong enough. On the mods front, get a winch. I'd always suggest an 8274. Its a lovely bit of kit. Other things worth having is a bit more underbody protection (can never be too safe) and to loose the plough off the back. I'm not sure about the LT230 swap, as long as the BW is in good condition they seem to work pretty well. Julian Read's still got one in this 90 and it never seems to struggle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted November 25, 2005 Author Share Posted November 25, 2005 I like the ARB bumper because it protects all the front of the Rangie. I have not got it on yet it is sat in the garden, it is second hand. The only recovery point is a pin type hitch that is bolted to the bumper where the bolts go through the bumper from the hitch it is noticeable that a lot of strain has been put on it or the bumper is very weak. The bumper does not look very old though i think it is made to hold a 8274 does anybody know if this is correct? What are the best types of recovery points on a bumper? I can get steel laser cut, i was thinking about a very thick piece of steel in a half circle with a hole in it for the shackle and welding it 90 degrees to the front of the bumper if you get my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 I know that Rover made some c##p but so did Ford. I'm driving an escort at the moment, and I'd certainly agree with that... However, one bit of the escort which isn't at all ropey is the ignition (it has the EDIS4 version). EDIS has been around for over decade now (introduced in the early nineties, I think - do a search on the net if you want an accurate history), and it's very well proven. I can't think of a V8 that Ford (UK) made in the nineties. So do you use a 4 cyl set up with 4 coils running 2 pots each? Do megasquirt make something that works instead of this? ... I have been looking for a system to remove the distributor for a while. What parts do you need to do this? Have many other people carried out this conversion? How hard is it to fit? There is some experimental code for running dual EDIS (abandoned I think), but it's not really the way to do it. EDIS came in four versions - EDIS4, EDIS6 and EDIS8 - the number referring to the number of cylinders. The only bit that differs between EDIS4 and EDIS8 is the control module - the crank position sensor is the same as are the coil packs (but EDIS8 uses two and EDIS4 only one), so the only bit you can't get easily from a UK scrappy is the control module. Frankly, unless you're really tight, you might as well buy all the bits off Bill Shurvinton (bill NOSPAM shurvinton.fsworld.co.uk - replace nospam with an @). He can also supply a ready built Megasquirt for not much more than you can buy the parts for - I went for that option mainly so I could tell my insurance company it was professionally built B) ). Incidentally, the EDIS system is 'wasted spark', so with EDIS8 you are actually running four coils (two per pack), each igniting two cylinders. The EDIS4 system only has two coils in a single pack. Megasquirt does now have the ability to decode a crank position sensor and trigger coil packs itself if you install the right version of the software (there're a few hardware mods as well, so specify them if someone else is building it - ditto for EDIS). You could run coil on plug with this system which is as waterproof as a spark ignition system is going to get, even better than remote coil packs like EDIS. No ignition leads Last time I checked this was still a bit experimental, but I'm a bit out of date so it may well be a safe bet now. I opted for EDIS as my main priority is reliability. Lots more Megasquirt info here and here, and specifically Megasquirt'n'EDIS here. The only person I know of currently running Megasquirt'n'EDIS in a V8 landrover is Dave White of the Yorkshire Off Road Club. As you can see, he's done some fairly rigorous field testing and it hasn't come up wanting... As to how hard it is to fit...ask me in a few weeks! It shouldn't be that hard - a few people on here already have Megasquirt without EDIS (Fridgefreezer is pretty much 'resident Megasquirt expert') so they could give you more idea. You need to sort out mounting the coil packs and crank position sensor, and fit a trigger wheel to your crank pulleys. You might be able to sort out something using the coil pack brackets of a Ford car, but I went for a custom alloy bracket on the side of the plenum: The trigger wheel I've used is from a Ford Transit, about £15 new from a Ford dealer - you need to machine the inner diameter out so you can sandwich it in your pulley stack in front of the balance weight without displacing the pulleys (Bill Shurvinton now has some custom made ones suitable for the job but a bit different to this - no idea which is better): It's easier to see in this photo of someone else's engine: I'm just going to bolt the EDIS controller to the inner wing - then you just wire it all up, set up your fuel and ignition maps and flog the leftover bits of Lucas fuel system on eBay to recover the cost Oh, one small point...when you've done all this, don't actually remove the redundant distributor unless you make alternate arrangements to drive the oil pump... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted November 26, 2005 Author Share Posted November 26, 2005 Geoff, Thanks for that the photos have helped a lot. For some reason I was thinking the sensor ran off the "fly wheel" which I thought was tricky but seeing the photos I can see that it runs off the front pulley (stupid me). I like the idea of the coil on plug system and I assume I would only need Megasquirt for this system? Do you need Megasquirt to run the EDIS system or can you run it without at 10 deg advance. How much does the system cost from Bill Shurvinton if you don't mind me asking? I can not get the Megasquirt and EDIS link to work. I have spoken briefly to Dave White about his Megasquirt system as the one thing I hate about the V8 is it allergy to water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Jordan Posted November 29, 2005 Author Share Posted November 29, 2005 Geoff, When do you estimate on having the EDIS fitted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Geoff, When do you estimate on having the EDIS fitted? It might be done by Christmas - more likely into January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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