SteveG Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Puggers,The Darien Gap straddles Panama and Colombia, travel advice here and here from the foreign office suggests that Colombia may not be the safest place to plan a trip to. I don't want to pee in your cornflakes just offering another facet for you to consider. HTH Mo Oh well it will have to be the Gap road next month instead! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Don't leave it as a vapour - start working out the details and saving now, when you get close to being happy with your plans set a date (and tell everyone - that makes you go! ) and nah-nah! Vapour trip is now a reality. Simple really If you *really* want to do it you will, no matter how many 'problems' your brain throws up nothing is impossible to solve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 For news of Cape to Cape expedition click here Thanks Kev, I had a chat with them at Billing in '06, What a trip, I reckon any 1% of the trip/route would be an adventure in itself but the whole thing..hard to imagine the time and logistics involved. Cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Although a couple of seris 2 did do the trip in 1960 well beofre the rr was even thought of 1960 Darien Gap trip Was it a couple of series 2's ? IIRC the LandRover publicity articles of the time only mentioned one vehicle. I've read subsequent accounts that a Willys Jeep Pickup went along to keep the LandRover company.And probably also to pick up the bits that fell off. I don't know much about British challenge trucks but I probably wouldn't take anything that used Rover type spiral bevel diffs . The Range Rovers that were winched and man handled almost all the way through the gap were only on 7.50x16 SAT's and they were breaking diffs on a daily basis.If it had to be LandRover based i'd prepare a 100 inch hybrid with a 2.5 NA Deisel or Petrol engine , 101 diffs front and back and an LT95 4 speed gearbox/transfercase. A combination that is capable of delivering and transmitting full torque all day even when ploughing through thick chassis deep mud. No intercoolers to clog up and turbos to burn out. No puny 77mm gearboxes to spit their teeth all over the floor. Bill. Edit. I read the link you posted Ali, and in Terence Whitfields amendment to the artical the Willys is given equal credit , and there is a photo of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Looks like Puggers and Jen then. Good luck Will you want us to pay a ransom or should we stick to our principles ? Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 principles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 The more I read the less appealing it is at least there's a lower chance of kidnap & murder in Russian swamps What about re-running one of the Camel Trophy routes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 The more I read the less appealing it is at least there's a lower chance of kidnap & murder in Russian swamps What about re-running one of the Camel Trophy routes? What about Lands End to John O'Groats ? Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 What about Lands End to John O'Groats ? Bill. I think one of our club members was going to do that, perhaps even going by green lanes for as much of the route as possible. Would be fun but not quite as much adventure as foreign swamps & jungle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 The more I read the less appealing it is at least there's a lower chance of kidnap & murder in Russian swamps What about re-running one of the Camel Trophy routes? oddly the more i read about it the more interesting it gets. the chances of getting kidnapped and murdered are still pretty low and not many people are going to kidnap anyone in a battered land rover! could se it taking a couple of years to organise though. what other trips are there that are going to be this hard or this rewarding? overlanding is rewarding but not exactly challenging I've always thought crossing siberia could be fun, but you'd haev to do it in winter when everything was frozen, so you might as well go and drive round finland for a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 The Range Rovers that were winched and man handled almost all the way through the gap were only on 7.50x16 SAT's and they were breaking diffs on a daily basis. That's not strictly true. For part of the trip they were fitted with very large flotation tyres as the 'ground' was about as solid as porridge. It was whilst they were wearing this huge rubber that they kept breaking the diffs - not helped by the gung-ho driving style either. This summary of the whole trip was prepared by Dunsfold (who own one of the two Range Rovers): Two Range Rovers, VXC 868K and this one, VXC 765K were flown into Anchorage by RAF Hercules aircraft. They departed Anchorage on 3rd December 1971.On 7th December the leading vehicle, VXC765K, crashed into a container lorry straddling the ice covered road helping a ditched motorist. "765" was extensively damaged. It was towed to Fort Nelson on a rope, then to Vancouver on a solid tow bar with the 'driver' wrapped in a sleeping bag. The temperature was -3 degrees C and there was no heater! The front of the vehicle was completely rebuilt by the Vancouver Leyland dealer using spares air freighted from Lode Lane. The vehicles left Vancouver 14 days behind schedule but made up some time on the run south through the US. They arrived in Panama City on 12th Jan 1972, were 'jungle prepared' and set off into the Darien Jungle on 19th January. The jungle crossing took 95 days, the vehicles achieving on an average day approx. 2 miles, and a fuel consumption sometimes as high as 3 GALLONS PER MILE! On arrival in Medellin, Columbia and the 23rd April, the vehicles were thoroughly serviced and converted back to 'road-going' mode and then continued the run south. Through sections of South America, the vehicles were cruising at 90mph for hours on end and one 800 mile stretch of desert was crossed in 10 hours. In the extreme south snow again became a problem, but a telex was sent to Lode Lane from Ushuaia on 10th June saying 'Mission Accomplished'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 You could of course always hang about in the malaysian jungle for 10 days, hoping to get out on the other end in 1 piece. You even compete on some tracks. Living out of your vehicle for 10 days is hard enough as it is, we were carrying about 300 kg of junk in the back to keep ourselves and the car going. Maybe not quite the 90 days darien gap, but It would be a taster and a carbreaker nonetheless. Building bridges was interesting, especially when it comes to getting to know people. I lost count of the amount of bridges we build/repaired/drove over. Last year everyone came out of the jungle by boat, having left their vehicles behind. I want to go back! daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Looks like Puggers and Jen then. Good luck Hey, I was just saying 'anythings possible', not volunteering! It does sound like one hell of a trip... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 That's not strictly true. For part of the trip they were fitted with very large flotation tyres as the 'ground' was about as solid as porridge. It was whilst they were wearing this huge rubber that they kept breaking the diffs - not helped by the gung-ho driving style either.This summary of the whole trip was prepared by Dunsfold (who own one of the two Range Rovers): No mention of tyre size in that excerpt Darren. I recall reading an account of the expedition many years ago, that the ''engineers'' back in Solihull were trying to analyse why the RangeRovers were blowing so many diffs, and how to address the problem. They flew out non LSD centre diffs, based on the ridiculous theory they would provide a more balanced distribution of front to rear torque ! WTF,what difference would that make ? the centre diffs were or should have been locked all the time they were in the Jungle. Anyway they were still breaking lots of diffs, so the ''Engineers '' back in Solihull farted around again for while until they made a breakthrough, and telegraphed their amazing findings to the expedition crew,that the 7.50x16'' SAT's were just too big, and recommended that the vehicles be returned back to the standard (useless for the conditions) 205 x 16'' tyres. Maybe my memory ain't so good anymore,and I'm talking out of my rear end , but that's how this old fart remembers it. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 No mention of tyre size in that excerpt Darren. I recall reading an account of the expedition many years ago, that the ''engineers'' back in Solihull were trying to analyse why the RangeRovers were blowing so many diffs, and how to address the problem. They flew out non LSD centre diffs, based on the ridiculous theory they would provide a more balanced distribution of front to rear torque ! WTF,what difference would that make ? the centre diffs were or should have been locked all the time they were in the Jungle. Anyway they were still breaking lots of diffs, so the ''Engineers '' back in Solihull farted around again for while until they made a breakthrough, and telegraphed their amazing findings to the expedition crew,that the 7.50x16'' SAT's were just too big, and recommended that the vehicles be returned back to the standard (useless for the conditions) 205 x 16'' tyres.Maybe my memory ain't so good anymore,and I'm talking out of my rear end , but that's how this old fart remembers it. Bill. Both solutions would work when trying to solve broken drivetrain parts. and give less traction. Glad I wasnt in the jungle waiting for solihul to come up with a sulation, around 30 years later were still waiting for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 No mention of tyre size in that excerpt Darren. You're absolutely right. That was offered more as bit of general background to the whole thing than about the breakages. Nevertheless, they did have the problems when using very oversize tyres. I was reading an article by Geoff wassisname (the Land Rover engineer who had to solve the problem) in one of the LR mags only recently. The following is also taken from the blurb by the other vehicle, which is at Gaydon: The Range Rovers were standard, but fitted with much special equipment such as swamp tyres, petrol tank guards, snorkel exhaust pipe extensions, Fairy winches and roll-over bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 On a more realistic and more accessible note, would it not be wiser to do a trial run closer to home first to get some first hand experience. Many of us read the Transylvania Adventure trophy thread and downloaded the video and many of those commented how much fun it looked. Well, how about doing something similar in Romania or perhaps the Polish Forests but without the competition, call it Adventure Touring The challenge simply be to get everyone through. Plenty of camping, good outdoors grub and beer is good for the soul. I would imagine that 2 or 3 weeks of broken plasma, burnt out winch motors, blown diffs and broken half-shafts would keep many here entertained What do you chaps think ? Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Impala Adventures run (or at least used to run) a trip a bit like that from Finalnd into Russia. Was good fun but hard work, by all accounts. ISTR the round trip was about four weeks . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 If only we knew anyone in Finland or Russia We have something like this in the early planning for 2009, basically taking the long way round to get to Ladoga and then running in one of the lower classes for a giggle. Just waiting for Jen to finish her truck first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 On a more realistic and more accessible note, would it not be wiser to do a trial run closer to home first to get some first hand experience. Many of us read the Transylvania Adventure trophy thread and downloaded the video and many of those commented how much fun it looked. Well, how about doing something similar in Romania or perhaps the Polish Forests but without the competition, call it Adventure Touring The challenge simply be to get everyone through. Plenty of camping, good outdoors grub and beer is good for the soul. I would imagine that 2 or 3 weeks of broken plasma, burnt out winch motors, blown diffs and broken half-shafts would keep many here entertained What do you chaps think ? Mo Mo, sounds like a great idea. the darien gap isn't something that could be contemplated for a year or two anyway and it would need some pretty special planning and logistics to do it. Driving 1400 miles to transylvania to get some experience would a fun way to get started though- as would running ladoga once or twice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Right, that's 2, we have a party. Mr 64 where are you ? Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 '.....In 2005, more people were killed or injured in Colombia by landmines than in any other country in the world. When travelling in rural areas you should always follow local warnings about the presence of landmines.....' Jeepers! You would have thought that mantle would have went to Iraq or somewhere close. It would take more than a heavy-duty 3mm chassis to stop one of those putting a spoiler on your day. Playmore with claymore.....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 '.....In 2005, more people were killed or injured in Colombia by landmines than in any other country in the world. When travelling in rural areas you should always follow local warnings about the presence of landmines.....'Jeepers! You would have thought that mantle would have went to Iraq or somewhere close. It would take more than a heavy-duty 3mm chassis to stop one of those putting a spoiler on your day. Playmore with claymore.....! I can do mine clearance. For a price. Seeing mines can be easy if you know what to look for and understand why they were laid. To deny areas to the enemy or just to deny access through a region. Once you understand that you'll survive that much longer. A few facts and figures. It can cost as little as $2 to make a mine. But it costs the industry somewhere in the region of $200 to lift every mine. Under the Geneva Convention we have to mark and record all minefields laid and the position of the mines within. As Bog Monster will testify even as recent a conflict as the Falklands we haven't cleared all the mines yet and don't actively seek to. Too much money, time and resources. That's a fact of life with regards to warfare. As to Iraq having mines, yes they do but the bulk of the threat now comes from IEDs. A completely different kettle of fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 As to Iraq having mines, yes they do but the bulk of the threat now comes from IEDs. A completely different kettle of fish Whether it’s a Mine or an improvised explosive device……….. they both go bang and hurt………..a lot Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Ian Yes and no. Yes in the fact they both go bang and hurt but No because mines get laid and then they are just left to be silent sentries in the ground. Where as an IED is command detonated so that when the target is close it achieves it's best outcome. There are several companys round the world that are developing smart mines. In that they recognise friendly forces and turn themselves off and then when they have passed they re-arm themselves. But we are years from that being 100% reliable. I do mine warfare like you do V8s. Just that my job hurts a little more if it goes wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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