RoLandRover Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Does anyone have an idea about which jets and needle sizes are needed for a 4.6 v8? the block wil std. with compression between 9 and 10 (depending on heads) exhaust wil be tubular SS, camshaft wil be the Kent 180 (torque up to 4500rpm) manifold Offenhauser dual or 360,... I still have to choose the carb is the new Thunder 500, basicly the same as the Performer 500 but with a new 'load/accelerate setting) they share the same internals and jets etc. Who can help me out which ones to order as a default setting, and wich of both manifolds to choose from. many thanx RoLandRover. http://rolandrover.mijnalbums.nl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Call Real Steel and ask for John ........... even if he doesn’t know, he will find out for you........ +441895 440505 http://www.realsteel.co.uk/ Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithjh Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Does anyone have an idea about which jets and needle sizes are needed for a 4.6 v8?the block wil std. with compression between 9 and 10 (depending on heads) exhaust wil be tubular SS, camshaft wil be the Kent 180 (torque up to 4500rpm) manifold Offenhauser dual or 360,... I still have to choose the carb is the new Thunder 500, basicly the same as the Performer 500 but with a new 'load/accelerate setting) they share the same internals and jets etc. Who can help me out which ones to order as a default setting, and wich of both manifolds to choose from. many thanx RoLandRover. http://rolandrover.mijnalbums.nl RPI will also help you out Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoLandRover Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 Thanx, but I hate to ask advise of some company where I won't buy the parts, Cost-wise I probably need to get the jets and bits here in the Netherlands, or I need to get more parts to make it profitable with shipping-costs calculated. any one any advise about the manifold? I tend to choose for the Dual-plane. have a nice weekend all!! RoLandRover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Even if you are not buying from them, Real Steel will still be happy to answer your questions........................ Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Something else to consider...is it an Auto as the Kent 180 is best in an auto ??? , ....Kent 180 is a mild cam 272 Degrees and soft power band from 1000-4500RPM.....power drops off suprisingly hard after 4500+ RPM Better may be (all far better than std) : For Serious low end grunt & mid rpm power - Oselli RV8255 More power generally / very flexible cams lots of torque and not "Cammy" - Kent H214 or Crane H204 Reknowned as good cam for Holley 4 barrel ! - Crane F248 - but you'll need solid lifters / adjustable pushrods Christ I need to get out more....... Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoLandRover Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 Something else to consider...is it an Auto as the Kent 180 is best in an auto ??? , ....Kent 180 is a mild cam 272 Degrees and soft power band from 1000-4500RPM.....power drops off suprisingly hard after 4500+ RPM Better may be (all far better than std) : For Serious low end grunt & mid rpm power - Oselli RV8255 More power generally / very flexible cams lots of torque and not "Cammy" - Kent H214 or Crane H204 Reknowned as good cam for Holley 4 barrel ! - Crane F248 - but you'll need solid lifters / adjustable pushrods Christ I need to get out more....... Nige Hi Nigel, there is no reason to rev her up over 4500, its a heavy car with 285/75-16 tyres,.. @ 2500 in 5th it allready runs 120/125 km/h I really like the car to be torqie and <ahum> ''economical'' to drive. solid lifters and all are really not an option or necessary either IMHO Now get out now!! Cheers, by the way,..you seem to be a bit into the matter,....what do you think about the different manifolds? <img src="http://www.mijnalbum.nl/Foto-PCMIJQKY.jpg"> this is the one i got laying around,..it has got a strange bolting square compared to the carb and gasket, It allso seems to be machined inside o f it,... someone got an idea why??? RolandRover http://www.mijnalbum.nl/Album=TLQCICKI <img src="http://www.mijnalbum.nl/Foto-3PIFWQZI.jpg"> nice isn't it!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoLandRover Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 retry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Snort Phnaaaar V8 Porn Snort Gurgle Last try : 4500 RPM is a low "finish" for a powerband / V8 Manual ? Std V8 revs to 5000 -5250, so why limit to 4500 (Believe me the power band drops off ) ? Your engine ........your call........, but if manual its not IMVHO the best choice of cam.... But love the pics At the risk of getting bitten........... is this mainly a road motor ?...as oppossed to be used seriously off road much ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoLandRover Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 Snort Phnaaaar V8 Porn Snort GurgleLast try : 4500 RPM is a low "finish" for a powerband / V8 Manual ? Std V8 revs to 5000 -5250, so why limit to 4500 (Believe me the power band drops off ) ? Your engine ........your call........, but if manual its not IMVHO the best choice of cam.... But love the pics At the risk of getting bitten........... is this mainly a road motor ?...as oppossed to be used seriously off road much ? Nige I love seeing them in real Damn I do have a manual 5speed,.. but would you believe me I hardly ever exeed 4000rpm!? daily cruising is @ around a maximum of 3500rpm I do believe your stand though, but doesn't a longer power band take longer to reach top torque at a higher rpm reading? seen from an other point of view: . I believe by gaining a lot of torque at lowerrrrr rpm readings,.. your narrowing the powerband. Will the torque at lower rpm readings still be as high? the other way around: By stretching the useable powerband,..maximum lb.f.ft. will only be reached at a higher rpm. this might only be my simple thinking I'm just a dutch bicyclesalesman what I want is Smoothness instead of HP,.... am I beeing silly now???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 No, your not being silly Cams RPM and torque is a hugely complex subject, and as such many people either sprout nonsense of genuinely do not understand. in simple terms the std cam does a good job, design by a committe, if the designer was a track racer wanting max RPM and a tight powerband all V8s would prob have had a Kent M256 - this has a power band that comes in at 4000+ and goes on to 8200 , there is NOTHING under 3000 other than induction roar, but the power delivery when it hits is awesome. However for anything other than track and having the gear ratios spot on a less tuned V8 would seem (and prob perform) faster. Thi sis due to Useable power, tight power bands are difficult at best to live with on any road motor, and at best are tiring, having a cam that gives bags of Ooomph anywhere in the powerband makes for a good lively motor. The std cams are good, but for a bit more ooomph there are better, the one you have picked is a good one, but the cam is more suited to an auto, its power delivery and characteristics, thats not to says its no good in a Manual, just to say there are better ones. The ones I have listed make the most of the engine in stdish trim, you could say as you don't go over 4000 rpm why have one at 4500 ? Think about it this way, you won't gain a more powerfull engine from having a cam powering out at 4500 rather than 5250, what you have is a tighter powerband, the better camshaft with a wide powerband will just feel more powerfull, but there is a combo of revs to BHP to Torque, thats why the extra 500+ rom is worth still having. Prob is cam are expensive, and I was purely saying if you haven't bought it for the same money there is prob a better cam suited to your engine have a think, choice is youers I asked about the 4 barrel and it being mainly a road motor as these carbs are really not good off road - but I am guessing its mainly a road car ? Anyway, have a think, its your V8 and your money Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoLandRover Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 No, your not being sillyCams RPM and torque is a hugely complex subject, and as such many people either sprout nonsense of genuinely do not understand. in simple terms the std cam does a good job, design by a committe, if the designer was a track racer wanting max RPM and a tight powerband all V8s would prob have had a Kent M256 - this has a power band that comes in at 4000+ and goes on to 8200 , there is NOTHING under 3000 other than induction roar, but the power delivery when it hits is awesome. However for anything other than track and having the gear ratios spot on a less tuned V8 would seem (and prob perform) faster. Thi sis due to Useable power, tight power bands are difficult at best to live with on any road motor, and at best are tiring, having a cam that gives bags of Ooomph anywhere in the powerband makes for a good lively motor. The std cams are good, but for a bit more ooomph there are better, the one you have picked is a good one, but the cam is more suited to an auto, its power delivery and characteristics, thats not to says its no good in a Manual, just to say there are better ones. The ones I have listed make the most of the engine in stdish trim, you could say as you don't go over 4000 rpm why have one at 4500 ? Think about it this way, you won't gain a more powerfull engine from having a cam powering out at 4500 rather than 5250, what you have is a tighter powerband, the better camshaft with a wide powerband will just feel more powerfull, but there is a combo of revs to BHP to Torque, thats why the extra 500+ rom is worth still having. Prob is cam are expensive, and I was purely saying if you haven't bought it for the same money there is prob a better cam suited to your engine have a think, choice is youers I asked about the 4 barrel and it being mainly a road motor as these carbs are really not good off road - but I am guessing its mainly a road car ? Anyway, have a think, its your V8 and your money Nige hmm,... I have allready bought the Camshaft It is a 5 speed it's mostly road use, and heavely loaded holidays in mountain rich areas around europe. It will run an IMPCO 225 LPG system which is allready up and running in my car on a 3.5 so no problems when offroading. (thats why I have the plenum on top, so the intake can be fed with LPG mixture) probabl,....y i'll keep the setup as money is allready tight and buildup of the 4.6 has not even started yet. while we're at it,... have you got any ideas about the amount of mm that need to be taken away in order to maintain compression above 9:1? i'll be using 3.5/3.9 heads combined with the composite headgasket. My thoughts wend out to shaving the decks and heads equaly or is this nonsens? ( I do now I have to trim/set the valve train with it, even the manifold seems to be needing a 'shave' on both sides complex stuff,...I LOVE IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 hmm,...I have allready bought the Camshaft It is a 5 speed it's mostly road use, and heavely loaded holidays in mountain rich areas around europe. It will run an IMPCO 225 LPG system which is allready up and running in my car on a 3.5 so no problems when offroading. (thats why I have the plenum on top, so the intake can be fed with LPG mixture) probabl,....y i'll keep the setup as money is allready tight and buildup of the 4.6 has not even started yet. while we're at it,... have you got any ideas about the amount of mm that need to be taken away in order to maintain compression above 9:1? i'll be using 3.5/3.9 heads combined with the composite headgasket. My thoughts wend out to shaving the decks and heads equaly or is this nonsens? ( I do now I have to trim/set the valve train with it, even the manifold seems to be needing a 'shave' on both sides complex stuff,...I LOVE IT I think 40 thou bring the comp up to what you are after I have the specs somewhere I'll have a rummage if nobody beats me to it however, be sure that the heads have not been skimmed before Also skimming heads can cause line up issues on the inlet, so 20 20 decking of block face and head face is better if not more expensive. To be honest to benifit of doing all of the above on a std engine is I would say not worth it power wise Spend the money on say a Duplex timing chain and steel gears ARB mains and Head bolts ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoLandRover Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 I think 40 thou bring the comp up to what you are after I have the specs somewhere I'll have a rummage if nobody beats me to it however, be sure that the heads have not been skimmed before Also skimming heads can cause line up issues on the inlet, so 20 20 decking of block face and head face is better if not more expensive. To be honest to benifit of doing all of the above on a std engine is I would say not worth it power wise Spend the money on say a Duplex timing chain and steel gears ARB mains and Head bolts ? Nige I probably do a bit of work to the heads with the dremel, DoubleS sports exhaust allready got a nicely looking adjustable camgears and chain. I allso haven't got a cluw what 'rummage' means and do not know what an ARB is you probably do not refer to the bumper manufacturer And are those headbolts of a specific type? sorry if i'm boring you,.... but i'm so happy with all information about the conversion I grab all I can,.. The 'search' function does have a nasty fault in it,...you can;t lookup words shorter then 4 karakters,... searching for '4.6 v8' does not work in any way have a nice weekend man and thanx for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 rummage = I need to find where I put it The Crank Main Bolts and the cylinder head bolts are renowed for not being too strong. ARP make a set of VERY high Tensile Studs and the sets of studs come complete with nuts etc, these are a hugely stronger options than the std rover parts. Most quality V8 suppliers sell ARP Stud Kits If you can't find them post up and I will see if I can find that URL too edited to add : http://www.v8tuner.co.uk/product.php?id=520 Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 I wouldn't bother skimming the heads, I'm running 3.9 heads on mine with composite gaskets and it doesn't seem to suffer. ARP (not ARB) make the head studs and IMHO they're a worthwhile investment. Likewise a duplex timing chain setup. I remember those carb things, they were quite popular in the last millennium weren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoLandRover Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 I wouldn't bother skimming the heads, I'm running 3.9 heads on mine with composite gaskets and it doesn't seem to suffer. ARP (not ARB) make the head studs and IMHO they're a worthwhile investment. Likewise a duplex timing chain setup.I remember those carb things, they were quite popular in the last millennium weren't they? I'm just an old fashioned guy The Carb is mainly an expensive throttle body to operate the LPG flow, and around europe will act as a petrol back-up,..jsut in case of need..... I will have a look at the ARP head-stud kit,..if its really that good then I need to have,... Mega-squirt is nice, but as I will be driving on LPG not that big of a deal for me I think, also cost-wise,... maybe later with LPG injection?? thanx a very lot! RoLandRover http://www.mijnalbum.nl/Album=TLQCICKI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Why I like the ARP head studs is this; With normal head bolts, you are winding a steel bolt into an aluminium block. They can seize in, and they can snap off. You can also damage the threads in the block. With ARP studs, you wind the stud in using a small hex key on the top, with low torque. Then you put the head on and wind a nut onto the stud, so all the load/tension is achieved by a steel nut on the end of a steel stud - less likely to get damaged/seized and they say you can apply more torque than standard if you want without damaging anything. Winding studs in - note hex key on head of stud: Fitting head: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoLandRover Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 Thank You If the ARP headbolts are reuseable then i'll have those! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Yep Another fit and forget item The pics above were from me putting Monsewer fridges V8 together, as you can see you screw the studs into the threads in the head, the end of the studs has an allen key so thats how they go in, then the gasket goes on top followed (as in the pics) by the head. The washers and nuts then torque up. To remove a head you just remove the nuts and washers - leaving the studs in place, they can be removed should you ever need to (block decking for instance) via the aleen bolt hole. Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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