Is this the head gasket or something else?

[FridgeFreezer]

Engine is 1.8 K-series, I need to have a proper investigate tomorrow in the daylight I know.

On my way home along the motorway today as I coasted to a junction the the oil light came on and it sounded rough as hell (I guess it would with low oil). Luckily I nursed it a few hundred yards to a garage (oil light went out again but it still sounded nasty) and stuck some oil in, but it still sounds bad, running along in 4th or 5th if you put your foot down even a little bit (EG going uphill on the motorway at 70mph) it makes a bad tinkling/clattering, almost as if it's knocking under load.

Strange thing is it's not losing coolant and it's not getting hot. There is a small oil leak on the distributor side of the engine somewhere but I'm fairly sure that's minor.

Any ideas? Could this be a strange HGF or is it likely something else?

[Les Henson]

If the oil did get low, then the overhead cams may have been starved of oil - along with the hydraulic lifters. The head has a seperate camshaft upper housing, but the assembly is line-bored and the cams run straight on the bare alloy. You can take the rocker box off to see if the lifters are marked/dished, and if you are careful you could also remove the camshaft upper housing and distributor cap in order to look at the cams/bearing surfaces. If you do this though, the cams will lift out of their housings a small amount due to valve spring tension.

If you put your ear to the engine while it's running - you should be able to tell if the rattle is coming from the top of the engine.

Les.

[FridgeFreezer]

OK had a bit of a further investigate, I'm not hopeful TBH but I'm still none the wiser as I don't really know what I'm looking for in these engines.

On starting it up, I got a lovely cloud of blue & white smoke which then cleared. It's misfiring slightly but it clears with a bit of a rev.

With the oil filler cap off, it has what I would say is really quite a lot of crank case breathing but there's no mayonnaise in the filler or in the coolant, and the coolant level hasn't dropped since the inlet manifold gasket was done about 1k or so back.

So, off with the cam cover, all looks clean enough:

As does the inside:

Not sure if this is normal wear or a bad thing, a few shots of the cams & lifters:

(Embiggened close-up shots available on request)

Plugs aren't too clever:

Plug1:

Plug2:

Plug3:

Plug4:

Back together, it's doing quite a lot of breathing:

Ticking over with the oil filler off, it's not ideal (AVI file, windows media player, 11mb)

Some revving, chuff chuff! (AVI file, windows media player, 24mb)

Also while I was prodding about I spotted this:

Has someone put a VVC head on or do they all have "VVC" cast into them?

[Les Henson]

VVC head is MG (1 whole cam and one split cam) You have the head but not the cams - the heads are probably the same.

The first video wouldn't run, but the second did and it doesn't sound or look good. Your cams and lifters (what I can see of them), look fine - the lobes would be radially scored of they had been affected. Unfortunately you can't see the cam bearing surfaces - due to the top half of the cam box still being attached. I would do a compression test. The cylinders should be between 120 and 140 psi, with a variation between cylinders of around 10psi (but it may be as high as 20psi variation on an engine that still runs ok).

Didn't take you long to trash that one did it

Les

[Marc1187]

The last k18 i did a compression test on all cylinders were around 175psi, except cylinder 3 that had an exhaust valve not sealing (145psi). Might also be worth doing a cylinder leak off test, if you know of anyone with the tool, see some that have sticking valves, wouldnt explain the oil loss though, unless a valve stem oil seal was shot?

[jules]

John

When we got it running we joked about the oil condition

please tell me you changed the oil between the two year parking up of that freelander and you starting to use it again

[FridgeFreezer]

Yes I've done oil & filter & air filter & HT leads & coolant & inlet manifold gasket

[jules]

Sorry to doubt you John

As you haven't had it long I don't suppose you know if its been using much or if its suddenly

would it be seals and rings???

[Guest WALFY]

Yes I've done oil & filter & air filter & HT leads & coolant & inlet manifold gasket

Re occurring theme eh John

[FridgeFreezer]

Re occurring theme eh John

Like I said, the RR had plenty of oil in it - Al must've had a vapour leak at his place that's displaced the oil. Then again, the idea of having a running vehicle is probably so alien he's forgotten how they work. The screen wash is probably full of 20/50

[jules]

Like I said, the RR had plenty of oil in it - Al must've had a vapour leak at his place that's displaced the oil. Then again, the idea of having a running vehicle is probably so alien he's forgotten how they work. The screen wash is probably full of 20/50

I can give you stunning's number if you want

he has a fair bit of expiriance with them

[viorelluta]

Hi FridgeFreezer, sorry to hear that you have problems. My English is quite poor (in technical terms at least) so I can't help with ideas. Please let us know when you have a diagnosis of the engine.

Before "my first HGF" (it seems to me that HGF is a sort of love affair, or like loosing the virginity :-) ), I have had a problem with some oil leakage - the upper part of the engine was greasy. But the oil level was OK. However, they have replaced the sealing rings of the camshaft.

Good luck, Viorel

[disco_al]

it makes a bad tinkling/clattering

that sounds like pinking, which is usually associated with dodgy ignition timing. have the cam/crank sensors checked as they can cause problems. possibly cambelt slipped? unlikely though i would think. oil starvation is the more likely culprit, compression test/leakdown test would be a good start, followed by whipping the sump off to check the big ends.

[LandyManLuke]

given that you've got that much compression gas getting into the sump, I'd guess that a ring or two has broken up.

Just a guess though, i know nothing specific about these engines, Les's suggestion of a compression test would answer the question for good.

[jules]

John

I did a little looking around and Paul Choat has a freelander 1.8 engine for sale 69k on it and in good working order £450

PM me for his number if your interested

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Plugs aren't too clever:

Plug1:

Plug2:

Plug3:

Plug4:

Erm yes ............you could say

Just a thought,

Lightish brown deposits on the center of the plugs electrodes means you have 'ash' - ash being normally oil contaninations and or very poor fuel (prob not fuel here so its oil innit ) ?, to do this its normally clynder head are ie -valve stems / guides allowing oil in, or from piston rings either broken or I think more likley gummed in with s**te (what did the comp test show ?).

The Goo from wherever damages the 'spark' and produces the misfires, if the fouling doesn't clear then the fouling bonds to the plug and the issue and problem then gets compounded and then worsens further, in those pics some of you plugs being worse than others. ?.

Black oily kack is also pointing to an oil problem, ....and is normally the next stage up in damage from the "Ashing" you have on some of your plugs / area of the plugs - again this points to oil probs..... but 'bigtimely' F ones now .

FWIW as a last ditch try before an engine I would suggest you :

shove 2x tins of FORTE engine flush in,

drive for 15 mins,

drop the oil and change the filter .......add new filter new oil 4x new plugs of the right heat range type etc.

Then see if the plugs reso the above, worth a try for a few quid.

The forte moves the glazing and goo that can be internally in the engine, with a engine that has sttod these deposts can harden then cause what you have now,

the FORTE (Do not use anything else this is the stuff !) .....removes and cleans these deposits out like you won't belive, .........as I said worth a try ??

nige