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bespoke portal drop boxes/axles


carl hurst

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Yep, That's the Mack, Bill.

its a tractor axle :ph34r:

So aside from the risks of over heating the bevel gears, etc. has any one tried a tractor front axle on a Land Rover? I was thinking of building site dumper axles once, with portal drop boxes and LR swivels to put back steering where there was none before and then take advantage of the hub reduction gears for strength.

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Hello chaps,

A few words on the KERJACK topic:

http://trinixy.ru/2008/02/11/snegobolotokh...k_25_shtuk.html

http://www.autobalt.ru/rev/Kerzhak-Mega-GAZel-obzor-i-foto/

NICE LINK :)

http://fishki.net/comment.php?id=31191

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At the begining KERDJACK was buil with his axles from traktor solidly welded to the frame :) I guess it used to be a bit of bumping VAN :))

Now it is built with coil springs suspension, and also has 6x6 form not only 4x4 :))

It can swim it can climb and it is very light and last but not least these axles are rock solid, I have never heard of broken one, ever...

Huge gear ratio as well in the axles...

Its very expensive and so far I did not have the chanse to see it in action, I was told nex few months I might see one in Bulgaria but who knows...

Enjoy the pictures :)) and you better take a seat coz the clearance is stunning :))

kerzhak_23.jpg

Kind regards,

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A few more words on TRACTOR axles topic:

The are as heavy as MOG axles(200-250 KG), as hard to brake, huge gear ration but differ from MOGs with their option to adjust clearance, at least some models, differ with also lack of brakes :)

Here you are some pics of rig with tractor axles, again Russians did it first...

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wildly O/T (soz)

cool and different X Eng van? The mutated "Oka"

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mega unspring mass is going to make anything other than crawling a little uncomfy I would have thought, Tractor axles are on the chunky side and possibly too heavy for even Dirtydiesels tastes :huh:

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My Bother in-law just bought a pair of Mog 404 axles off e-blag complete with 6 wheels and tyres for £350.

Why build at all?

I don't know what C303 axles go for, as these are much more simple fit to a Land Rover, but surely they aren't even the cost of the materials to make your own?

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WANT ONE!:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

Make one!

Imagine getting that through the SVA test. :lol:

I wouldn't mind working on it if you decided to make one though.

I am sure there will be stronger ways of making up the pivot, that one looks like a steering swivel off something big.

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Hello there,

There are 2 types of reductor axles that Russians fit to their UAZ, non of them is portal BTW.

1st is normal "military" or just "reductor" axle.

2nd is upgraded "military" and called Barse, its prety much the same its just 15 cm narrower.

P.S. I was just told that some BARS axles are made by Chrome-Molly steal as they are so skiny but they spin 50-60" inches tires...

Here you are some pics of 4x4 jeep called BARSE "БАРС" ;) wheels can be up to 62" in diam...

I hope you'll enjoy it :lol:

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That one is Praga V3S sorry not UAZ, its portal axled, air cooled engine, very old but very capable truck, lots of them around here in BG, still pulling their weight

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Damn those are cool, not entirely sure about the name :unsure: but wouldn't stop me rushing out to buy one when my lottery numbers come up (I've written a strong letter to the lottery people about their consistent failure to pick the correct numbers so hopefully it'll be sorted very shortly :P )

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I've had another reasonably sensible idea for portals.

I mentioned before the idea of having an internal ring gear driven by a small sprocket on the end of the axle. It would be difficult to get a useful height increase. Additionally, sealing it would be tricky.

What about making the sprocket for the end of the axle with a similar pitch to those that drive tracks on tracked vehicles and making an internal ring gear out of plastic - HDPE for example which is self lubricating. This attaches directly to the rim. Add an open frame which supports three sprockets around the inside of he rim plus a regular style stub axle which holds the rim on to the assembly.

Then, you have effectively made a road/rack which the axle drives around inside the rim. Because of the size of the teeth, you don't worry too much about mud & stuff getting into the mesh. You just seal the bearings the wheel runs on and where the drive sprocket attaches to the axle.

A second thought which leads on from this is to allow the whole of the assembly that the rim and three gears are attached to to rotate about the same axis as the drive cog. Then, normally the axle will sit at the lowest point on the wheel. When the wheel comes up against a step and cannot move forwards, the drive gear will start climbing up the track, lifting the vehicle until it is above the height of the step and can roll straight over. This could work for huge wheels - tractor wheels for example. It keeps the gearing and stresses and particularly the centre of gravity low. A bit like permanently driving on a circular waffle!

Si

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Because of the size of the teeth, you don't worry too much about mud & stuff getting into the mesh.

thats where you fall down IMHO. Its not too difficult to mentally extend the idea to be an internally geared wheel, and effectively have the whole portal INSIDE the wheels of the car. Brakes could be interesting - but there's always pinion brakes, or you cuold also treat the same wheel as a drum brake or even squeeze discs in? Hmmmm...

A second thought which leads on from this is to allow the whole of the assembly that the rim and three gears are attached to to rotate about the same axis as the drive cog. Then, normally the axle will sit at the lowest point on the wheel. When the wheel comes up against a step and cannot move forwards, the drive gear will start climbing up the track, lifting the vehicle until it is above the height of the step and can roll straight over. This could work for huge wheels - tractor wheels for example. It keeps the gearing and stresses and particularly the centre of gravity low. A bit like permanently driving on a circular waffle!

Si

I'm going to get thrown out for this, but...

The cartoon character 'He-Man' :ph34r: used to have a tracked vehicle which did something similar. There is probably some old footage on youtube or something - I always loved the way that thing drove along! :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

Al.

:unsure:

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theres a lot of praga's sitting in the Czech republic for sale (£not a lotta), I think they were orginally made there...?

Yes, that is right, they are made in old Chechoslovakia, they are quite cheap over here as well, but far too chunky axes for my taste :)

is the БАРС axle the same as the standard Uaz portal axle but just wider track width? looks cool :)

Yes, BARS axles are just wider "military" axle.

I was told that there are new versions of BARS axles, made from ChromMolly and IMHO them massive tires realy want some strong and reliable steal... you know its not to take a tiddle out of Russions but they say if they go on a long trip they carry spear parts like shafts and gears(reductor gears for the axle called "mushrooms") as they are well known with their poor quality of fabrication...

So UAZ reductor axles has some cons as well, but benefits are much more :)

Cheap, 2000 Pounds for rear and front(+disk brakes conversion costs about 500 pound over here , so 2500 in total) I am talking brand new from the dealer

Not heavy about 130-160 kg for axle with drum brakes

Parts are dead cheap and easy to find , and the good part is they brake just one gear which is like in UNIMOG, replacable for rear and front, left and right, and costs peanuts...

They cope with 35" mud tires, no trouble, they last Ladoga :))

Only problem is the axle tube is not steal, it is cast iron, so not that easy to fabricate and modify(hard to make coil springs suspension), some might know that cast iron is haaard to weld :)

Good - high ground clearance, about 30cm with 29" tires, the diff is much smaller than original one.

Another good - if you brake the shaft in the axle, your tire will stay, means the car is still drivable, not like JEEPs an example, you brake shaft with them and the tire is down with the brake and etc...and you are stuck :)...

Regards,

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Brakes could be interesting - but there's always pinion brakes, or you cuold also treat the same wheel as a drum brake or even squeeze discs in? Hmmmm...

Brakes are easy - you bolt a big washer to the same mountings as the plastic tooth ring and have the caliper on the inside of the ring.

with this idea, the end of the axle could potentially be inside the rim making the axle narrower than standard - if that's your bag.

The cartoon character 'He-Man' :ph34r: used to have a tracked vehicle which did something similar. There is probably some old footage on youtube or something - I always loved the way that thing drove along! :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

"By the power of Grey Hair" Naa...don't remember it!

Si

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Ah yes - of course! You get nice large diameter brakes as well! Nice.

The problem with putting the ring gear and brakes and CTIS and your packed lunch inside the wheel rim is that you'll have a large rotating seal at the inner edge of the wheel (if its sealed from the elements which, if you ask me, it should be).

You'll probably also encounter ratio issues - I guess your average 'internal-ring-gear : pinion' ratio is a PITA.

Power of what? Dunno what you're talking about. Oddball. :ph34r:

Al. :unsure:

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If you get on to hubless design have a look at what they do to choppers.

One of the firsts designs used the rotor bearing from a military helicopter to hold the wheel, some have internal brake calipers while others have brakes on the transmission. Some of the ideas could be applied to the end of an axle tube instead of the end of a bike frame.

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Oh man! I've just been watching the Ron Covell fabrication vids - and now those! Someone somewhere is telling me to put 'chopper' on the vapour list... B)

Thats exactly what I was envisaging! It'd be an easy addition to seal off the outside of the wheel add CTIS and seal off the inside too. Like I say - the only issue then is the bloomin seals. But better that than have everything running through the crud? Dunno. I could probably just about convince myself the brakes are ok, but the ring gear? I dunno about that. Especially if its plastic.

Its a hell of an idea. B)

Anyone think of a solution to the seal problem?

Road legality???

Al.

:)

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