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88 inch Auto conversion


Les Brock
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Having convinced myself that I really would like an auto :D

Has anyone acctually done this to a 88 inch 200Tdi powered Hybrid ???

on mine the engine is in the normal position for a TDi and it can't go forward because of the H14 being installed as far back as possible along with the rad and full width intercooler,

so will it fit ??

and what.....as full a shopping list as possible please will I need (Simon you still got it ?)to get it to fit ?

the main problem as I see it is the length of the rear prop, as in I will need a very short with very big angle of movement.

If it won't fit, looks like I might be building a 100 Inch then :P

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Martin _________, last name escapes me I'm afraid, but he's fairly well-known in Land Rover circles, is down south in Bristol and has been in and around the Rainforest Challenge now for a few years (somebody was on here recently recounting a trip to Malaysia last year with him), was telling me in Malaysia about two 88's he had done with a TF727 (the three speed auto in the 80's RRC) which is rather larger than the ZF box. I also spoke to a chap in Oz once (Perth area, Bill ???) who swore he had put a Mopar 318 and a TF727 into a Series I 80" and made it work - so it can be done.

The trick will be a custom high angle, wide yolk, full length slip joint (Propshaft Clinic in Bradford) propshaft and pushing the rear axle back a couple of inches (which would allow you to use longer, more flexy springs as an added bonus). Between a good custom propshaft and even only 2" rearward relocation of the axle, the question will probably boil down to T-box length. It would be very interesting to talk to Tony Cordell who I believe is running an Atlas II transfer case? Atlas are now doing a divorced clockable version that could save you some room if it could be made to work.

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Les, is there a partcular reason you want to keep the 200? The reason I ask is my advice would be to sell the 200 and LT77 and buy a 300 and ZF4 speed complete. That way you'll end up with most of the stuff you'll need to do the conversion. I reckon this is the cheapest and easiest way of doing the conversion. I was very close to buying a 300 and autobox complete so I got everything I needed but, in the end, I managed to find just a box with most of the bits I needed(thanks Rob) which is more unusual. The main job that may need doing is replacing the electronic pump with a traditional mechanical one (most of them have an electronci one) and you'll also need the kickdown brackets to go with the pump (about £15).

Length wise, I'd try it and see. What did you reckon to the overall increase in length? Also, if you swap the engine over too you might be able to coax it a little further forward. Even an inch would make a big differance. I'd also reccomend the Propshaft Clinic. They're a superb company and its well worth having a word with them to see what they advise.

Extending the wheelbase is annother viable option. I've been told you can even buy a section of steel that fits either inside or over the main rails (the guy who told me couldn't remember). Personally I'd leave the mounts where they are and then just extend the rear of the chassis. The worst part of that is moddifying the rear axle to four link. If you don't fancy that then just move the A frame cross memeber but leave the trailing arm mounts where they are; you really will notice a big improvemnt using longer arms. As far as bodywork goes; I'd trayback. Its nice and simple plus can be made a lot tougher than a rear tub.

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LR chap is Martin Lewis IIRC

HonitonHobbit knows him personally

Bill in Aus will probably be "daddylonglegs" on Outerlimits if it can be do he can do it, he's built his own underdrive/created 6wheel drives/halftracks to name but a few.

I have the Ashcroft underdrive not the Atlas.

Sounds intresting though Les

Edited by white90
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TF727 (the three speed auto in the 80's RRC) which is rather larger than the ZF box

IIRC when measuring boxes for possible conversion into Alf the TF727 was about an inch shorter than a ZF.

Les, like I said elsewhere you really need to know the length of a tdi ZF/LT230 setup (any one help with that? or know if it's any different to the V8 ZF?) then get under your motor with a tape measure and see if it's a go'er. It'll come down to engine position, I reckon if it's far enough forward it will go with a short but usable rear prop.

Options are more limited with a Tdi, if V8 you could go with a jag box (BW 65 or 66 IIRC) and a series transfer box which is much shorter than ZF/LT230.

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Ive got an Isuzu/4 speed ZF combo in an 88" S2a bodied hybrid now, just in the process of putting an R380 into it, bucket loads of space and cheap to do (Isuzu 2.8's are only 24" long from drive plate to waterpump).

4 speed Zf for peanuts, Isuzu for £300, adaptor from CPE for £240+ vat.

I have seen a SBC/auto combo in an 88 but that was a lot of work to fit in :(

If you do want to stretch the chassis the nicest way (in our experience) is to press up 4 C sections, make the Cs sized so that when put together they form an interferance fit box section to go up inside the Rover chassis and twice as long as the stretch job, cut puddle holes in the chassis, push the new box section in place, puddle weld through the chassis and flush fill, butt weld the chassis ends to the new box, plate the outers to the same O/D as the original chassis and bobs your monkey - no nasty visable joins, strong as hell.

If that makes no sense at all (it doesnt to me) I can fire over some pics, its easier to do than it sounds.

My money for props goes to Burgess of Bradford, cant recommend them highly enough

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Les,

PM me if you want Martins number - I think he is in some foriegn place at the moment...

There is an adapter for the Jag box to fir a Tdi but it doesn't work well with the Tdi characteristics - V8 works superbly tho!

Ford C3 can be made to fit and can be fitted to a P/T T box

If you fitted a 4speed auto then a purpose made prop with wide angle Turkish joints would make up for the loss of 5" - talk to Peter at the Propshaft Clinic.

Question is 'why' Les?

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Hi Les,

Sorry but the ZF Auto sold a while ago. I can tell you that it's 103cm long, from front face of engine backplate to the rear face of the handbrake drum where the propshaft bolts onto it. The engine backplate for a 200Tdi is 3cm deep and the rest of the stuff (belhhousing, ZF Auto, transfer box plus handbrake drum combined) is 100cm, making 103cm total.

Also, here's the list of what I had, which is everything you need:

- ZF 4spd Auto from a Tdi, including bellhousing & torque converter

- Transfer box

- Handbrake assembly

- Starter ring/flexplate

- Oil cooler, pipework, unions, various clips etc

- Gear shifter & cable, top cap, button, slide selector, spring, knob, rollerdeck, trim, outer cable clamp, swan neck, hi/lo & diff lock linkage

- Auto oil filler neck, dipstick

- Engine backplate (to fit to a 200Tdi)

- Gearbox wiring loom

- Tdi diesel injector pump bracket for Auto, plus kickdown cable/assembly

I think Will or someone suggested buying an Auto 300Tdi Disco complete... beware, as all Auto Discxo's/Rangies came with the fly-by-wire/ECU controlled diesel injector pump... not the mechanical type fitted to Defender 300Tdi's. Unless you want a lot of extra wiring, plus difficult-to-find Tdi ECU's, steer clear!

I hate to say it, but this is why my comp[lete "Auto installation kit" was a bargain and you should have bought it!!! It took me almost a year to source everything required.

Alternatively, track down that 200Tdi Auto Disco that I once owned and then Mark90 owned... that was one of very few genuine factory 200Tdi/Autos and did not have an ECU-controlled injection pump. Maybe buy the whole car, rip off the bodywork and build a roll cage/panels around that. It'd be a 100-inch 200Tdi Auto. It was a darned good, solid car too!

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I think Will or someone suggested buying an Auto 300Tdi Disco complete... beware, as all Auto Discxo's/Rangies came with the fly-by-wire/ECU controlled diesel injector pump... not the mechanical type fitted to Defender 300Tdi's. Unless you want a lot of extra wiring, plus difficult-to-find Tdi ECU's, steer clear!

Export spec ones didn't - I know of one 1995 and one 1997 300Tdi auto Discovery here and both of them are mechanical only pumps - no EDC (electronic diesel control). Not sure which countries had this setup and which would have had EDC engines but they do exist, they just might be rather rare in that part of the world - possibly all European cars had EDC, don't know.

I had a vague notion that the early 1994/95 ones in the UK were mechanical injection? - but I might well be wrong on that.

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Simon, I'm pretty sure the early 300tdi autos had mechanical, not electrical. I've seen a few that aren't. Your completely write about avoiding them though, they're troublesome and, if you go the electronic route, you might as well use a TD5 or V8. However, you can convert back to mechanical on an electrical engine. Andy Marshallsay did ity on his Ibex.

There are a couple of things you missed, Simon. You will need to get the bush that bolts between the crank and the flexplate aswell. Plus the flexplate and ring ear are two parts (if they've been separated that can cause 'fun'; the bolts in the ring gear have a habit of shearing). The list of consumables is pretty big too; the full list of parts down to the last nut and bolt is about a page and a half long.

Jez, I think you're idea may be the best case here. An Isuzu lump is very compact and works well with an auto (probably better than a Tdi). Certainly something to think about Les.....

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I think if I had to do it again I'd start with a complete vehicle, whip the bodywork off & build a hybrid up from there.

Putting it all in my 90 was a complete nightmare. I shortened my rear prop myself! :blink: & is on the limit of needing a double cardon cv so 88" will definately need it.

Not sure I'd go for anouther tdi either. If I build anouther challenge truck it would need to be big v8, auto of course! B)

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Simon,

Yep kicking myself..but at the time I did'nt have enough cash :(

....Thinks......Oh to have a Warn Wallet... :lol:

Lots to think about, possibly the Izusu is the way to go !

Mr Luvvers,

The reason is my naffed left knee, I find driving on the road a pain, but off road its just bluddy painfull..which is a real pain as I love driving it

looks most likely that a change of truck is due......this keeps cropping up, so much as it pains me after all the time taken to build the thing...I may be just putting off the inevitable :unsure:

I don't really want to build one from scratch again, due to not having a garage and doing it all on the drive and the time to do it all over again

may just be resigned to getting older and having to use the Disco more <_< and having all the toys on it and not using any of them..... :lol:

and being a biatch all my life... :ph34r:

Edited by Les Brock
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Simon,

Yep kicking myself..but at the time I did'nt have enough cash :(

....Thinks......Oh to have a Warn Wallet... :lol:

Lots to think about, possibly the Izusu is the way to go !

Mr Luvvers,

The reason is my naffed left knee, I find driving on the road a pain, but off road its just bluddy painfull..which is a real pain as I love driving it

looks most likely that a change of truck is due......this keeps cropping up, so much as it pains me after all the time taken to build the thing...I may be just putting off the inevitable :unsure:

I don't really want to build one from scratch again, due to not having a garage and doing it all on the drive and the time to do it all over again

may just be resigned to getting older and having to use the Disco more <_< and having all the toys on it and not using any of them..... :lol:

and being a biatch all my life... :ph34r:

The wallet's been looking a little empty recently. Seems to happen when you own a Land Rover ;)

Les, what's the chance of renting a lock up garage for a couple of months to do a chassis stretch? I wouldn't start again from scratch, I've though about this but its a lot more work.

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