hattymender Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Just exploring a line of thinking. I've been on the DVLA site looking at what you can do before the vehicle's identity changes; new chassis (ok), new engine (ok), new steering (how would they know?), etc. I'm planning a new (well, old but new to me) engine this summer. Should be ok. The chassis is 'fair' but before too many more years it'll need swapping. Along with a lot of other bits. In all likelihood within the next 5 years they'll not be much left of the vehicle that left the factory all those years ago. Probably only bits remaining will be those too rusted on to fall off. I'm assuming that at some point the collective 'changes' make it a 'new' vehicle. Even if some of those changes have been on for years. So does an alternative engine + new chassis (with a couple of years between) = problem? Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 This is a big issue involving SVA tests etc. There is a system of point for components to retain the identity. One definate is the id stays with the chassis, if you change the chassis for a second hand one in the eyes of the law you have rebuilt the vehicle the chassis came from. If you replace the chassis with a NEW one of the same specs this is allowed. With other parts it gets a bit grey, change them all at once and in theory you would end up with a Q plate, BUT as you point out how would they know for most components. Running repairs are allowed so components changed for recon / replacements parts is allowed. Lets face it not many series vehicles have all the origional parts in by now. Changing parts for uprated components is event more grey and in many cases depends on who looks at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrode Finger Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Umm..... i would argue that if the existing vehicle is still roadworthy, ie MOT and Taxed, and you swap the engine, and tell them, then the DVLA will adjust the V5 accordingly. May want to inspect it with a VIC but thats it, i think. If you change the engine, box, and do chassis for a 2nd hand one all at the same time, its SVA issues, ie loss of reg number etc , etc. My experiance with DVLA etc with my Hybrid was good, (to date), i believe that if you change a component one at a time just through necessity of repair, then they do not take exception to it...... if you have a Hybrid of dubious registration, ie a tax exempt 1990 80" coiler then you have lots of grief. If its just a 'normal' S3 or RRC etc with a alternative engine, then they ought to just change the V5. Thats my understanding.... but others may disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hattymender Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 Umm..... i would argue that if the existing vehicle is still roadworthy, ie MOT and Taxed, and you swap the engine, and tell them, then the DVLA will adjust the V5 accordingly. May want to inspect it with a VIC but thats it, i think.If you change the engine, box, and do chassis for a 2nd hand one all at the same time, its SVA issues, ie loss of reg number etc , etc. My experiance with DVLA etc with my Hybrid was good, (to date), i believe that if you change a component one at a time just through necessity of repair, then they do not take exception to it...... if you have a Hybrid of dubious registration, ie a tax exempt 1990 80" coiler then you have lots of grief. If its just a 'normal' S3 or RRC etc with a alternative engine, then they ought to just change the V5. Thats my understanding.... but others may disagree. I'm working on the theory that if you change one bit at a time, notify them, and then leave a discrete interval before the next stage it should be ok. Don't know if they check backwards through the vehicle history but as said, there a probably not many series 2s with original engine and chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrode Finger Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hattymender, If i was in your position, thats what i would do! regards engine atleast! Chassis, is another issue, if it will patch up for a while, might be better in the long run to get a new one... especially if the S2 is a keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 The chassis is the key here. New = ok 2nd hand as others have said is NOT = SVA. If you switch to a new chassis thats 5 points, more than 2x other "Units", if you keep original type axles etc, then you'll be fine. One issue here is say you change the engine from the original thats -1 point, if you change it again that does not have another -1, thats already counted becuase it isn't std. The key also to this is if you completely rebuild a axle, thats still original, as you have replaced the worn parts with new same ones, as oppossed to changing from a leaf axle to a coui axle. If you change the axle TUBE then technically your in a grey area, but I would say in all honesty if its a similar unit and like for like it would be nigh on impossible to say with 100% ceratinty thats its not the original one, more so the older the LR, and who is to say that what you have now hasn't had a tube chnaged in its life ? Your more lilley to find the LAw / VOSA / Police interested in a major accident / road side inpection / MOT time if it looks like a toast rack with "B*llocks to the world" painted in italics over the bright pink paintwork matching the gastly 4" lift and tastefull baseball hat back to front owner with the tax exempt road disc. HTH Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Given that most components on LR's don't have a serial number (or if they do, it's not on the V5) you can get away with axles, steering, etc. and as has been said, try to find anything a few years old that has all its original components! Engines they don't care about - it's hardly rare, even with normal cars, for a replacement engine to be fitted (especially these days where dealers would rather replace an entire engine than get their hands oily). I have done several engine swaps and the DVLA have always been happy to just record the new engine number & cubic capacity (MORE! ) Chassis swaps - you're into dodgy ground mainly because of the number of points. Number & letter stamps are cheap enough on ebay though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkw90 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 If you get a Q plate as i will can you put a private plate on it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Nope - if it's a Q plate it must have a Q-plate although IIRC someone said you can transfer a Q onto a non-Q car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkw90 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Ok so if i have 8 points i can keep the plate i have on it is that right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Total is 15-points. 7 keeps the original reg and 8 is a Q-plate. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkw90 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Total is 15-points. 7 keeps the original reg and 8 is a Q-plate.Les. Thats it i am lost now , i thought you had to get 8 points to keep your reg . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 If you modify a 1972 series 3 truck it's originally worth 15-points as it is how it left the factory. Componentts have a points value which make this total. When you take the vehicle for an SVA test (or just alter it) then replacement parts other than same-as factory fit, will 'count down' those 15-points. If your alterations knock off 8-points, then you have gone beyong the half-way mark, and the vehicle will have to have a Q-plate. Like-for-like replacements don't knock points off - leafs in axchange for parabolics are not included for example. Engine is 1-point, axles are also 1-point, transmission is 1-point, chassis is 5-points, and so-on. You must retain 8-points-worth of what would be regarded as original equivalent in order to retain the original registration. If you have modified the vehicle so that you have 8-points against you, then you should have a Q-plate. The points system is designed so that you can't have half and half - you either keep the original reg or you lose it. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkw90 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Going to be a Q for me then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Ah - but there's prestige in a Q-plate reg. If you have done the work yourself, got it SVA'd, etc, then you have modified a vehicle that the government regards as being still safe to use on a public road. Passing the SVA test would mean a lot of pride for me anyway. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hattymender Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 So in my case I'm looking at new (well, alternative) engine + box = 2 points. New chassis at later date = 5 points. So I'm just in. Next question. Hopefully soon I'll have a 2.5 + box looking for a home. I know of an ex army 110 minus engine & box going cheap. Not been registered so it's bound to be on a Q plate. But somewhere in the SVA it mentions emission test. Now there's no way on earth a 2.5 petrol would pass a modern emission test. Do they take 'real' age into consideration? PS. Les. I've a bone to pick. In technical forum you do a script on changing clutch fork arm. "Takes 6 hours with 3 tea breaks". Ha! I trusted you! Takes 12 hours with an awful lot of swearing. Mind you everything was rusted, rotten, rounded or rancid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101nut Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 So in my case I'm looking at new (well, alternative) engine + box = 2 points. New chassis at later date = 5 points. So I'm just in.Next question. Hopefully soon I'll have a 2.5 + box looking for a home. I know of an ex army 110 minus engine & box going cheap. Not been registered so it's bound to be on a Q plate. But somewhere in the SVA it mentions emission test. Now there's no way on earth a 2.5 petrol would pass a modern emission test. Do they take 'real' age into consideration? I believe if you have proof of the age of the engine then the older of the emissions tests (engine v vehicle) is carried out - so a 1980 engine in a 1990 vehicle would be a 1980 test ... but you must have proof of age otherwise it's log-book age. AndyG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Les. I've a bone to pick. All times are estimates and may vary by as much as 2-days. Tools required are based on the fact that you didn't buy them from Black Spur/other chocolate brands. Tea breaks are based on the average council workman, so 7hrs break out of 8 hours, and may include popping home for nookie/sun bathing/watching Trish/moaning about how hard your job is. Times were correct at time of going to print, but might vary wildy for no reason at all, other than to cover my own backside. I take no responsibility for anything at all - blame my Mum and Dad Copyright 'you didn't really me believe me did you?' Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkw90 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Ah - but there's prestige in a Q-plate reg. If you have done the work yourself, got it SVA'd, etc, then you have modified a vehicle that the government regards as being still safe to use on a public road. Passing the SVA test would mean a lot of pride for me anyway.Les. Good way of looking at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettisse Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Ah - but there's prestige in a Q-plate reg. If you have done the work yourself, got it SVA'd, etc, then you have modified a vehicle that the government regards as being still safe to use on a public road. Passing the SVA test would mean a lot of pride for me anyway.Les. I agree with the above, I have a "Q" and in a way I am "proud" if thats that right expression of it. I also took lots of photos of the original build as a record of the work done. when it went through the SVA Iwas rather pleased. A "q" plate would not prevent me from buying a vehicle that I wanted, in fact I feel it might be a bonus at least the motor would be up to scratch! Happy 'froadin, regards to all Bill Westley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.